Tommie Powers (03:31):

Thanks man. I'm excited.

Zach Johnson  (03:34):

How many powers th th th the Oh, gee. So for those that don't know who you are, maybe give everybody a little bit of a snapshot on what you're up to these days. Cause you're in the agency game you're working with, you know, in the late half a dozen or so clients that are spending you know, a big chunk of change, right? Like if you're spending 10, 20, 30 grand a month, like don't, don't go knocking on Tommy's door cause he's going to not open it. But yeah. So tell me a little bit about what you're up to now and how you got here.

Tommie Powers (04:08):

Yeah, I mean, a lot of people don't even know him back in the agency game. I kinda been in stealth mode building. But yet on the agency side we primarily focused on YouTube advertising. I think creative, you know, being able to produce really effective videos has been a big game changer, which kinda allowed me to kind of pivot back into, I kind of ran away from the whole YouTube ads. Oh, gee moniker, you know, kind of thing. Cause it's like, ah, whatever, I ain't guru, you know, that type of thing. But you know, getting into that lane and really seeing that allowed me to kind of pivot to it's like, okay, we're really good at this. You know, let's kind of double down on it. And I kinda been around for a while, man. I started Philly and marketing in like 2007 with Google, with Google display back then it was content network is what it's called, but it's kind of how I got my start man.

Tommie Powers (04:57):

And I kinda got somehow stumbled into Google ads and affiliate marketing was, I tried a bunch of stuff and man, once I logged into the Google account, I was like, I'm gonna, you know, I got it. You know, and I just kinda like, I just been in his lane. And so it went from the affiliate stuff to the agency stuff to, you know, the Silicon Valley thing to, you know, trying to be an investor to the agency thing. But it's always has been, you know, you know, paid ads has been my lane. And so that's kind of where I'm at.

Zach Johnson  (05:30):

Oh yeah. I want to get into how you're setting up your agency. Right? Like there's a, we were talking before this, like there's so many ways to, to set it up. And you've been obviously in the rev share side of things with 500 startups, they're all about the equity. And you've also been on the affiliate and the performance side, which a ton of agencies are trying to like jump into, they're trying to get out of the presenters of spend at a fixed retainers and in to some performance and kind of hybrid affiliate stuff. So I feel like there's you're going to share some wise words with us today on on, on some financial principles, how to structure the agency, but let's kick this off Dylan. Let's, let's dive into this rich ed [inaudible].

Dylan Carpenter (06:17):

Yeah. Yes. We love to kind of, you know, dive into kind of some nuts working super well, AKA the rich dad side of things. And you have a killer example for us today with the one and only organic VI, but you actually kind of mentioned, you know, this video is 5 million views spent over seven figures on this one ad or one video. So I mean, this thing's done some damage, so I mean, we'll pop this bad boy in the show notes, but go ahead and showcase this kind of rich ad and kind of give us the context behind it.

Tommie Powers (06:43):

Yeah, man, that was where I was when I was emailing you about it. I was saying like, I had already done this a couple of times. And I had had some success previously with this strategy. I want to say 2012 or 13. I don't know. I, I want to say me and you know, Kevin Karpinski, you know, Kevin Zach don't, you know, that was the first guy that I used this strategy with. So we took Kevin's VSL. It was like an hour and 10 minutes. And my idea was, Hey man, let's put the whole thing on YouTube and then we're going to drive. Well, you know, in displays with those ads would call back. Then we're going to drive ads to that. And back then they had something called external entity linked annotations. So what that would allow you to do is plug annotation anywhere in the video that will link out wherever you want it. Well, it'd be your website, so you can make your website. They don't have this feature anymore. This is one of the reasons why it killed this strategy, but men him did it first and it just took off like literally he went from five grand a month to like a seven figure business in the span of maybe like six months. It was crazy.

Zach Johnson  (07:59):

So he was the creator of the breakup doctor. So yeah, so it was kind of this like how, you know, it was like tar, like dating is a huge niche, right? Like it's kind of a, Oh, Hey, you went through that whole funnel. Now here's like the, the remedy of of how to get through it. It's a great niche, you know, in the grand scheme of dating. But he w he really was like, that was his two skill set. He was like a great, you know, coach for that. But everybody knew him is like the ads guy in the fall guy for that space. That's cool. You were, you were doing stuff with him back in the day. I think he, now he actually has an agency all roads, like

Tommie Powers (08:42):

Maybe. So I need to hit him up. Me and him ain't talked in a while, but at this time he was probably, and he'll tell you the story. I mean, he, he, he, he wrote me like a three page testimonial. One time I hit him up. I was like, Hey man, can you? And it was crazy. And it was like changed his life and the whole name.

Zach Johnson  (08:58):

So let's talk about Organifi for a second though, because those guys absolutely slay it on ClickBank. I mean, they've, I don't even know what their numbers are, but it's gotta be upwards of like 50 million a year now it's in terms of it's ridiculous. Right. And it's a, it's a phenomenal offer. It honestly reminds me of the days when I, when I was used to work with Dr. Ax on the paid media side, where it's like, you just get something that looks like that. You just, you can't put that fire out. So how do you still work with them? How long did you work with them? How long did this campaign go for? Tell, tell us about this.

Tommie Powers (09:35):

Don't know about three and a half years, man. Yeah, so I helped them, you know, so I was there in the beginning of organic, like beginning of it and that video, that link that I sent you that was the catalyst. But the point that I was making about even Kevin was, we had already, Kevin was like the first guy, and then I'll be there with a couple other people that already created a couple of seven figure businesses with this strategy of, you know, entire VSL on YouTube, you know, run ads to it, drop them off to a order page. And so by the time I got the organic pod, his system was, you know, prime time. And man, when we, when we ran it for them, it just, it just took off and the company just took off. But that, that ad was, you know, very critical to all of that because YouTube ads is kind of how we got that thing jumped off with the ads. And then obviously they got into the Facebook and everything else. And, you know, the thing just kind of went, but

Zach Johnson  (10:34):

So you're saying this video did over 5 million views VSL for them. And what was the spin? Right. See, they went from spinning. What on YouTube to like the end? What do you think that's is

Tommie Powers (10:46):

That one video alone was over a million by itself? You know what I'm saying?

Zach Johnson  (10:54):

On this show that have spent a million on a single ad? I feel like there's maybe some people that have gotten like 250 500,000 in spend on a single ad, but Tommy your records right now, man,

Tommie Powers (11:09):

I had another ad like that with another company that I worked with, we spent about a half a million dollars on, on an ad like that. So yeah, it's, you know, their strategy was dessert and then Google changed and YouTube changed and then they took away the annotations and they, you know, they did a bunch of things and then the algorithm changed and then target CPA, smart bidding, and all of these other stuff came out. And so we ended up transitioning into the in-stream because it's really a algorithmic play. Right. You get, you get the smart bidding capabilities with the artificial intelligence. So now lean heavily on that. But back then, that strategy was just

Zach Johnson  (11:49):

So for probably listening what you just learned, the rich hat you can't actually deploy today. So unfortunately this is all just,

Tommie Powers (11:56):

It's been for farming. You can, that's not true. It actually still works. It's not nearly as good as it used to. Yes. It still works.

Zach Johnson  (12:06):

Got it. Absolutely. It's such a different type of video too, you know, with the words rather than a talking ahead. So it's like a different kind of concept to where did y'all test that out of the gate or did you have somebody

Tommie Powers (12:18):

At the gate? We'll see, the other part of that too, is that well, in one of the other deals where we crushed it with this strategy, the same guy that wrote that VSL wrote and gratifies VSL. So, so the copywriter guy that I was working with, his name was Matt O'Connor, by the way, I always give them a shout out. Me and Matt have made history together, but Matt was my guy. And so I was, I brought Matt into the organic ideal. I introduced them, you know, into that deal. So, so Matt already, you know, by the time he got to them, you know, it already is what it is. It's like, you know, we already had the formula basically. And it just, you know, it's, it's just, it's just, we observed, you know,

Zach Johnson  (13:00):

Oh my gosh, man, O'Connor he's yeah, I think I,

Tommie Powers (13:07):

Matt has a string of seven figure, eight figure VSLs and copy sales letters. And, you know, it was like, I ain't never even tell him how much revenue meant to help people generate this Bunker's number. I know that whatever it is,

Zach Johnson  (13:24):

What's a bad run these days to have him script out your VSL a million dollars.

Tommie Powers (13:28):

Oh, probably you probably can't even pay him. You know? I mean, I don't know. You might, I don't know. You know what I'm saying? I think, you know, I don't know. I don't actually know what it is. I mean, I've talked to Matt maybe about four or five months ago. I think he's more on, you know, on the upside of whatever he's doing. Actually learned a valuable lesson from Matt too. Cause you know, Matt, Matt understood the royalty game when we was doing that back then. And I didn't, you know, and it's like, you know, you know, three and a half, four years later, I did with very well re working with them, but geez, I wish I would have you know, negotiated a raw deal, you know? So I learned, I learned a valuable lesson in that. But yeah, man, I think he's probably more into that, but I'm not a hundred percent sure,

Zach Johnson  (14:16):

Man. That's quite the rich add there.

Tommie Powers (14:19):

Yeah man. Crazy man. It was just so bananas, man. It's just really just went crazy. We had, we bought in the span of three and a half years on YouTube, we probably, we probably only even spent $2 million on YouTube. I mean, we were running other sources search and shopping and stuff like that. But I mean the majority of the money we were spending on YouTube went to that, went to that ad. Excellent. had over a, like a billion and something impressions from that ad. It was ridiculous, which was dropping like all kinds of searches and YouTube searches and Google searches and, you know, cause the Google search numbers from organic, I went from like zero to like 40, 50,000 a month. It was, it was just like all of this spillover. It was just, it was just, it was crazy, man.

Dylan Carpenter (15:10):

My gosh, that's quite a fricking rich out there. We had Zach so well, that was killer. We love to kind of dive into our poor ad segment. Something that you thought would maybe work good, maybe crashed and burned. But yeah, go ahead and kind of dive into kind of more of a poor ad concept there to kind of, you know, let everybody know we're not perfect.

Speaker 5 (15:33):

Amen.

Tommie Powers (15:34):

E-Commerce lead generation man. You know, I had, you know, I honestly like I was working with these people man, and they kind of talked me into it. I didn't think it was a good idea, but you know, and it kind of kept being on me and on me about it. And you know, we kinda, you know, did all of this stuff around, you know, generating leads and then pushing our offers e-commerce offers on the back end of it. Now, granted, we were already driving, you know, acquisition, you know, on purchase, but you know, they wanted to do a lead gen thing and you know, kind of get all of these leads or whatever the case may be. And I really wasn't into it at first to be Frank, but after a while it was just like, okay, you know, and I was all in on it. And so we had this massive amount of energy and work and time and money we spent. And it was just a complete and utter disaster so much so that when somebody come to me in the e-com space, talking about driving for leads instead of purchases, I don't want to hear it.

Tommie Powers (16:39):

And I know it works. I'm sure other people is probably making it work. So I'm not saying it doesn't work. It just, for me, that experience was so terrible. I'm good. You know what I mean? I learned to listen, you know, a long time ago from a guy who was working with no, he only wanted buyers. He never wanted freebie seekers is what he called them. I only want buyers and I always kinda, you know, took from that and I kinda went with that. And so to pivot away from that was a reminder dude, stick with the buyers, only get the buyers and then serve them well and then sell them more and you can increase the LTB and so forth and so on. And so we always, now, I only want to work with bringing you at least in the e-commerce physical product space. I only want to bring you in as a buyer into my universe rather than getting your email and then trying to follow up with you. And it was just a disaster, a lot of time and energy and money

Speaker 5 (17:35):

Got a little button on this show, Don failure,

Tommie Powers (17:43):

Just like crash and burn.

Dylan Carpenter (17:46):

Oh yeah. And I mean, even as simple as that, the amount window shoppers these days

Tommie Powers (17:50):

Are just so bad. So I mean, it's, it's a real thing. You gotta think about this too. Right? You're you're, you're trying to retrain your pixel. See, I wouldn't even, you know, I mean, I probably would've knew that if I was really thinking about it, but it's like, after the fact, these things you learn is like, you know, you've been having conversations with other friends of mine who are media buyers and Facebook ads and all of this different stuff. And it's like, well, all of a sudden you're trying to retrain the pixel to give you this action versus that action, you know, and that whole thing. And I was like, ah, that's so right. It's like, Oh my God. It was like all these little things that you really don't take into consideration when you're already spending, we were probably spending 50, 60 grand a month already on Facebook because this was some Facebook ads.

Tommie Powers (18:34):

And I'm trying to go after that. We're trying to collect completely retrain the pixel. It was just a disaster. It's probably like two, it's probably like 2018. That was one of those situations where, when I talk about the investing stuff, I realized my pockets wouldn't beat because I pumped a lot of cash and my own money and team and stuff into that. And and I lost big on it. You know what I'm saying? And I didn't need that loss at that time. So yeah, it was thinking about, I didn't need that loss at bedroom. You can be in a position where you can take an L you know what I mean? And you know, and I was able to recover from it, but I'm saying like, I didn't, I, that was like, I wasn't really in a space where like, I really was thinking like, everything I'm going to do is gonna be, you know, and I really like needed it to be like, you know, and then it didn't work out, you know? And I pumped a lot of money and energy and time into it. And I lost big, you know, I lost, lost big. I w I didn't able to, I wasn't able to recoup much of anything out of that. And so it's just really painful, just even talking about it. All right, let's change the topic. Then

Speaker 6 (19:45):

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Zach Johnson  (21:04):

Any additional work. Check it out@funneldash.com. Let's talk about, let's talk about some financial principles here for, for, for those listening. And I want to dive into your days, 500 startups, right? Like this is something that like the, the world of equity and accelerators and startups and growth hacking is so aspirational and so elusive for, for many people about the realities of it. Right. But a lot of agencies also are under the impression of like, if I could just get in with one of these accelerators, I'll have all of the business and I'll grow my agency. I'll also say one of the thing, which is 40%. I don't know if you know, this, this came out like a couple of years ago, 40% of venture capital is spent on paid ads. Absolutely. There's probably more than that. So I want to talk about your 500 startup days. Like, what was the setup there? Like, what was your role, you know, what were, what were you doing? Why were you there? Walk us through.

Tommie Powers (22:09):

I used to ask myself that question. No, so it kind of started out, man. It kind of go back to the YouTube thing, man. It's kind of crazy, right? Cause it kind of go through my career and I started YouTube ads, 2012 and so many great things that has happened in my life since then had something to do with YouTube, you know? And this girl, Tammy these young lady, Tammy camp, Tammy runs a company now her own company. But at the time she was in 500 and she was looking for someone to come and teach the portfolio companies about YouTube advertising, you know, and how to leverage that, you know, in their growth. And she was asking around and she was, you know, by the time she hit me up, she was like, you know, I had an extra round and your name came up like four or five times, like, no, would you be interested in coming and speaking to our portfolio companies, we run in this batch, blah, blah, blah.

Tommie Powers (23:04):

And I'm just kinda like, I already knew who 500 startups was, but I was just kinda like, wow, like what the hell that came from? Right. but I said, yes, I went. And first time I went then after I come back probably like a week or two later, they was like, Hey, can you come back next month? Blah, blah, blah. And I was like, Oh, maybe they actually liked me. So the second time I go back that's when I kind of was able to let my guard down. And that's when I kind of realized I could kind of fit into this. And I saw that they saw the value that I had. And it kinda, it kinda went from there.

Zach Johnson  (23:39):

Yeah,

Tommie Powers (23:42):

It was really just distribution hacker in residence. That means whenever they have portfolio companies who need help with, with distribution or growth hacking or what have you, you know, my specialty was paid ads, you know, wasn't just a YouTube ads because I have a wealth of experience in that arena. And so, you know, typically they would, you know, send people my way when they had like very specific things that they needed help with that, you know, I was the best fit.

Zach Johnson  (24:14):

Yeah. And so was this just like a volunteer set up? Did they,

Tommie Powers (24:20):

Nah, nah, nah, nah. So 500 startups as a fund. You know, and basically they get people with large sums of money, put it into their fund and then they take that money and invest it in, in companies. So in essence, that's what they do. And I think they probably close to a half a billion in assets under management now. So I'm crazy like that. I mean yeah, yeah, yeah. They probably, yeah, they probably would find, I don't know what the number is, but it's, it's pretty big. But and they portfolio companies, man, or I think last time I remember it was over 2000, so it's probably more than 2000 companies that they, because their model was more of a smaller investments in lots of companies, rather than a typical VC's in the Valley, they may do 10 or 20 deals.

Tommie Powers (25:13):

A year 500 startups is doing two, three, 400, 500 deals a year, even in some, maybe not 500, but they were, they were, they're doing you know, hundreds of deals. So their model was a lot different when they kind of start doing that than the typical VCs. And so, so they just have a lot more portfolio companies. And so they need more people like myself who has a real world expertise that can give it to these companies and help those companies create value because the name of the game is the more valuable, it becomes more valuable. Their investment is the more everybody make money.

Zach Johnson  (25:48):

Do you, so when you're like a, like a growth hacker in residence, like, is that like a, just like a monthly retainer, like a client almost pretty much. And like, what do you think these funds would pay somebody for like that these days

Tommie Powers (26:03):

You get what you negotiate? That's what I would say,

Zach Johnson  (26:07):

Agency, client, where you can go get like a 10, 10 grand a month for Tanner or is it like,

Tommie Powers (26:11):

Oh yeah. I mean, again, it's like, are you worth 10 grand a month though? You know, I'm just saying like, you know, I'm not going to put their business out there like that. I'm just saying like, you get what you negotiate and it's really all about, you know, what value can you bring? And can you you know, for me, I kind of was able to go in and before I started taking money, they, I proved my value. Right. You know, to them. And so by the time we started having a conversation about money there wasn't any question about what my value was. It was just more of, ah, I don't, if I could do it like that, I don't think that might not be worth my time. Like what about this thing? So it's like, you get what you negotiate, but yeah, I think there are probably people getting more than I was getting, you know, because maybe they, you know, sold a company for a hundred million, $200 million or whatever they had did. Right. And, you know, maybe that has a different value proposition. So

Zach Johnson  (27:06):

I don't know like how, how that world works and, and how you can, I mean, they're pretty much yeah, pretty much like a, almost like a client. Right. And was it good deal flow for you or you weren't really doing the agency thing at the time? So

Tommie Powers (27:23):

Not really. You know, cause you know, I've always been about scalable advertising type of, you know, situations rather than volume based agency models. You know what I mean? So so not really a great deal. I mean that was some deal flow. Obviously I do consulting not, not, not really now. I haven't been doing any of this year, but at that time I was doing that. So that was, that was those opportunities. But just in terms of like agency clients where we're running and managing a lot of the ad spend and that kind of thing, not, not, not as much consulting type stuff where, you know, you help someone in accelerator, they get some result and then they come back and say, Hey, you know, we just raised, you know, seed round or whatever. And you know, we got this money and we really value what you helped us with. It's like, how can we hire you to kind of give us some advice and some guidance on how we can, you know, type of thing. So I had a couple of those for sure,

Zach Johnson  (28:20):

Out of curiosity, with all those, you know, within doing the, you know, four to 500 deals a year, I mean, that's a ton. Did you have any kind of insights on, you know, how many startups actually made it through or they have a higher, I'm kind of curious, I don't know much about that, but I'm just kinda curious of how many actually would make it through if they're doing

Tommie Powers (28:38):

It through, what do you mean that

Zach Johnson  (28:40):

Are still in existence more or less?

Tommie Powers (28:44):

The failure rate is very high. It's probably 80%, 70, 78% me that their motto is principle. The principle of their model. They understand like if we do 100 deals, you know, 80 of them will fail, you know, 10 of them might break even, you know, seven of them might be, you know, you know, 50 million hundred million valuation, you know, two of them might be a hundred million to billion, then we get one unicorn. So if they really follow that principle, they're going to three to five X or more of their money, every five to seven years, even with that math. So what people have to understand what I know for me coming in the world that I come from, you know you know, three to five X is like, that's, that's all y'all doing every five to seven years. Like I can do that every day. You know? And so having conversations with limited partners, like people who put money in these funds, like, you know, these people, you know, 300 million, 500 million billion dollar, you know, family offices and stuff. When I, when they asked me what I do and I tell them I'm getting a five X return every day on the money that I'm spending, they think, Oh, that's a Ponzi scheme.

Tommie Powers (29:56):

That's not that scares the hell out of them. Like for real, like for real, they scare the hell out of them right there. Their, their thing is I want to what the one lady told me or that blew my mind the first time I really got it. She said, I want to maintain buying power throughout time is what our goal is as a family. And I was just kinda like, okay, if, you know, for like a week after that, I was just like, what the hell did she tell me? You know, it's just different way of thinking. Right. you know, if they'd be the S and P 500 and inflation, they can maintain buyer power. So it's a different way of thinking. I was just like, Holy, you know what I mean? Wow. You know what I mean? So that's when I started understanding, it's like, okay, this is, this is, you know, this is, this is on a whole nother level, like just a whole different way to think about things.

Tommie Powers (30:48):

But, you know, even with a high failure rate, like early on I'm like, why is that? You know, but once I kind of understood the model is like, it's not really about having an 80% success rate. It's really about, you know, you, you know, if our clients are beating, you know, inflation in the S and P 500, and you know, they're getting a return on their money and they maintain it by a power they're growing their portfolio. You know, they're going to be extremely ecstatic because these people are, you know, this, this lady who was the fourth generation of that money, you know, her whole thing is when I pass it to the next generation is at least as much buying power is when I got it. And it's just kind of was like, man, I want that for my family.

Zach Johnson  (31:32):

It is crazy. I love that concept of, I just want to maintain prime power. I love that. That's super cool. Let's go, let's get her on the show.

Tommie Powers (31:43):

Yeah. I don't even remember her name, actually. She she's the maintain buying power lady. I remember that lesson though.

Zach Johnson  (31:52):

That's a phenomenal lesson. I love that. Well, Tommy man, you've been an awesome, awesome guests. I appreciate you going down memory lane here. This is, this is all like old stuff for you, man. I feel like you're up to some new things here. So tell everybody a little bit about what you're up to next and how we can support you and how everybody can get in touch.

Tommie Powers (32:13):

Yeah, man, Tommy traffic you know I've been working in steel. I am going to be, you know, pushing out this new company that I'm focused on. I'm on a three to five year run with that. My ultimate goal is to be my own client, but I'm just trying to be smarter about how I go about that, this time around. So, you know, right now my goal is just to, you know, make a bunch of more, you know you know, people, I wanna, I wanna make some companies bigger than what organic is. Because you know, my game right now is I understand, like, you know, if I can beat, make people successful as a win-win in that, you know, we can both make very well. And then obviously I have a long-term vision of what I want to accomplish.

Tommie Powers (32:57):

So right now that's kind of where I'm focused at. We're, we're, we're doing very well in that. And I'm looking 2021. We should be able to kind of open that up a bit and kind of, kind of pushing a little further and try to help a few more people and have the kind of infrastructure to support them at the level that we want, because we, you know, I take pride in the support that I offer. And kind of like we talked about before is, you know, you kind of all up in, you know, kind of parts of the businesses that's how you really truly help people get breakthroughs, man. You can't just show up and know, throw some ads up and be able to do like the kind of stuff that I've been able to do was never about just, you know, being ads.

Tommie Powers (33:36):

It has always been about understanding that business as innately as I can, to make sure that what I'm doing is actually having the proper impact on that business. And so I'm looking to kind of really nail down my systems around how we do that as a team, as a company. So I can plug that machine into more people and kind of blow them up and know they pay us well and they make, they make out like a bandit and then eventually I'll have enough capital to build my own fund. Basically. It's kind of what I'm asking.

Zach Johnson  (34:08):

That's awesome, man. Tommy traffic. Oh, gee of YouTube ads, man. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for being on the show, man. Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the rich dad, poor dad podcast. If you're like me and listen to podcasts on the go, go ahead and subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and rich dad, poor dad.com/podcast. And if you absolutely love the show, go ahead and leave a review and a comment share with a friend. If you do take a copy screenshot of it, email me zach@funneldash.com. Show me you left a review. I'll give you a free copy of the rich add for ed book to learn more about the book, go to rich ed for a.com to leave a review that are rich and poor at.com/review. Thanks again.