Caleb (03:03):

Yeah, so a lot of chiropractors and then functional medicine. I often see it as like an evolution of chiropractors, although, um, so some functional medicine or integrative medicine doctors might be MDs as well. Um, or chiropractors who grew their practice. And basically they're treating things like auto immune disease, fatigue, um, diabetes, weight loss, that type of stuff.

Zach (03:27):

Got it. Got it. So why did you choose this? Right. Like, because before this, you were like working with some pretty big names, like, you know, myself, you know,

Caleb (03:35):

I'm just kidding, but like,

Zach (03:39):

You've done some pretty cool things in just the online marketing world. I think it's super smart what you did, but why, why did you go down this route?

Caleb (03:47):

Yeah, that's such a good question because it was hard for me. Um, I was used to working with people like Dr. Axe and people. I worked for Eben pagan for a little bit, and I, I was doing, when I was working with you at funnel dash, we had all kinds of really cool clients that I got to work with one-on-one and, um, so it was managing big campaigns, prominent stuff, things I could brag about. But, uh, when I went on my honeymoon after getting married in 2017, I came back from that. I was like, man, you know, this is cool and I can make good money consulting, but I want to do more than just help people make money. I want to also make a difference and build a business. And my wife and I were getting into holistic health. And because of that, Dr. Axe client, a few other synchronicities, I ended up having a bunch of chiropractor like influencer clients. And, um, originally I wanted to stay away from chiropractic because that was the industry that still to this day, so many, uh, you know, how to start your own agency programs say, Oh, chiropractic is a great niche. Um, so it's a pretty work Dover niche, but I had a lot of credibility already in it and I'd worked with influencers. So I ended up there and, uh, it's been great so far anyways. Yeah.

Zach (04:55):

Yeah. You're like the poster child of like start an agency and pick a niche like Cairo chiropractors, but I think you've done a great job. So tell us a little bit about where the agencies at today, you know, how do you structure it with your clients and, you know, give everybody a little bit of rundown of what you're up to and how your agency works

Caleb (05:14):

Well, and even was more specific than that. A specific, um, friend and client literally said, Hey, we started an agency for our chiropractic, like consulting group, but we're, we're not running the agency as well as we'd like, would you like to just take it over and have our clients? So they also had to like big time, uh, brick and mortar Cairo influencers. So they just dropped that all into my hands. So that's how I got started off with it. But, um, you know, I've learned a lot. It's been awesome. We've over, we've been doing this for two and a half years now, and I've been able to run things tighter and tighter with more efficiency and more effectiveness. And we've pretty much just grown off of referrals. We've added levels of software to, um, automate things and increase our efficiency. We've learned how to like draw boundaries with clients and set expectations better. Um, and yeah, so it's exciting seeing the whole industry evolve. Now everybody's going to the paper show model, and it's all about lead nurturing bots and lots of exciting things happening in, in the lead gen space. That's a win for the clients and a win for the agencies. And, uh, definitely the old suck as well.

Zach (06:26):

Well, you've got some pretty good stuff, man. I love what you sent over here for our rich has segment. So are you ready to dive into it? Should we dive into the richest? Let's do it all right. Break it down for us. Yeah. So this

Caleb (06:42):

Add, I wrote maybe a year, a year and a half ago. Um, you know, we're just always testing new copy and writing new things to try out. And this ad was really fun for a few reasons. First, we start off by addressing the town. Chiropractor is in, you know, just a simple call out like you've seen before, Hey, what's up Austin. And then, uh, and then it gets in the opening line is, uh, let me pull this up here. Um, the opening line is something about reversing lifelong. Um, health challenges is, can take time, but it's so worth having your life and energy back. And I like that line cause it's hopeful. And really it's like to a hardcore specific issue right away. And then the next line is for anyone who wants freedom from pain, fatigue, or chronic health challenges consider this. And then it makes the offer come see us for your initial exam, hyper volt massage chiropractic adjustment report of findings for only 41 bucks.

Caleb (07:37):

Then we do a little bit of objection handling and explaining what we do and why we can help you with these things. Um, and it's literally saying you've got nothing to lose. I promise you're gonna find our office sweet, caring, compassionate, knowledgeable, helpful with whatever you're going through. This is perfect for anyone desiring to have their best health vouchers. Our limited claim by clicking learn more. And, uh, in this one in particular, it's the chiropractor is a friend of mine. Awesome. Awesome guy. It's a picture of him doing like, uh, a handstand and his back is just ripped and he's got like Cairo tape on it. It's just really, uh, catches your attention is done super well.

Zach (08:16):

Yeah. So like how did this do, like break it down for us to hear about the results

Caleb (08:25):

Adults wise? Um, it's been awesome. Uh, as far as like hard numbers, I'm kind of estimating because this has been our leading ad copy. Um, an angle that we've used across, um, I don't know, 15 to 20 accounts over the last two years. Um, on average each one or sorry, a year and a half since whenever I wrote it. Um, and each time it'll be spending about a thousand bucks a month on the low end to two grand a month on the high end. So I'm going to say, we've probably spent at least $200,000 on this ad across tons of locations everywhere. And as far as the return, um, it's our best ad because it works and my clients that are using this, I mean, honestly, there's, there's been at least two clients that this ad alone has been able to just float for a year with like 10 to $12 leads, day in, day out growing their practice, being their main source of new patients. Um, and so typically my clients are seeing, uh, at least $1 and $3 out in return. So I would say the 200 K is at least produced on the low side, 600 grand for these chiropractor.

Zach (09:34):

Oh, there you have it. That's what I wanted to hear the phrase, Kayla, Kayla, you never failed to deliver my friend. I love it. So what's the funnel look like on the back of this thing, right. You've done a great job of not only systemizing the copy, the creative on the ad side, but I'm sure you've done your work and systemizing the funnel on the back end of this thing.

Caleb (09:58):

Yeah, absolutely. Man. Um, anybody running an agency or wanting to run an agency needs to understand that the Facebook ads is like one little point in the equation. Um, obviously as you're as anyone listening to this probably knows you got to get them to click the ad. Then they got to like the landing page. It's got to connect and make sense too with what they just read. Um, so we just send them to a two-step opt in funnel and on the landing page, we've got social proof, we've got, um, pictures of their reviews and testimonials from Facebook. We've got, um, their map hyperlinked in there. And ideally I try to get them to shoot a video that's like further connecting the dots for them. And then, uh, once they opt in, we will try to have a scheduler. Like I said, I run this for a bunch of different people.

Caleb (10:45):

So there's variations all along the way. Um, but really the, the real secret sauce is making sure that the chiropractic offices are trained to handle these leads and close them. Um, because I'll see ranges of anywhere from 10% of leads getting booked to, um, 30% or 40% getting booked. And that's literally like double your return with the same amount of leads. So, uh, yeah, it's really important in what we do with our clients is really like making sure that each part of the funnel is dialed in so that they can really have a rich ad and grow and, uh, hit their goals, their ROI targets with their Facebook ad spend. So

Speaker 3 (11:26):

Scripts for the, you know, whoever's kind of dealing with these actual kind of leads here. Do you have scripts for them? Do you have to kind of go in and train them? How's the, I'm kind of curious how that kind of works out because yeah. You're not the one closing the deals.

Caleb (11:37):

Right, right. Um, yeah. So we've got a magic call scripts that we use that based off of a bunch of different trainings and I encourage them to adjust it. But at the end of the day, it's such an easy script. Um, it's, it's basically just, you got to relate to their pain, like dig for the pain first. Why are they interested in this? Um, I found that's the most important theme is figuring out why people are interested in this and then just doubling down on emphasizing that over and over and over, and then booking their time and collecting their credit card. Uh that's like the high-level flow of it.

Zach (12:14):

That is amazing. So here's a question I have for you. Hey, love your, your, uh, your, your, a big credit card points at points guy. Um, do you, do you bill your clients, uh, like upfront and then you put the spend on your own card or do you, do you like have them pay for their ad spend? Do you own the ad accounts? And I'm curious how you logistically set these up for your, for your clients.

Caleb (12:40):

Yeah, that's a great question for the longest time I wanted to take the ad spend. And I had tried that a few times because I want the points. Um, I got to even work with the points guy back in the day a little bit, and that sent me on a course. I've done amazing vacations using a million plus points and all that good stuff. So I'm a huge fan. Um, but I, for one reason or another, especially in my earlier days of agency work, I was a little bit too. Um, you know, I would just acquiesce to whatever the client wanted. And then a lot of my docs, we would run workshops or different campaigns for them. They're like one-offs. And so it got weird when I was trying to charge them for that, but the direction that I'm going in now, I am starting to collect their ad spend.

Caleb (13:23):

And I just set the parameters. I say, Hey, we're experts at this. We've been doing this for years. We know what works and doesn't work. So you're going to need to run the offer the way we tell you right now. And you're going to need to spend the ad, spend that we say, and you're just going to pay it to us right away. Um, and then that's setting us up to really scale so that we can run tons of ad accounts that we own in one spot, still using their pages. And we get the points, talk about some expectations I'm in love with those. I love. So

Zach (13:54):

I do, I I'm going to do a native advertisement right now for ad card. Cause, cause, uh, cause I can, because I'm the host of the show

Caleb (14:02):

Like native live and native right here, the native advertising.

Zach (14:07):

So this is one of the things that like, this is like one of the use cases we wanted to create with ad card was so that the ad agency didn't have to go through these hoops to be able to earn that cash back that cash back. Like if you're charging, let's just say eight to 10% of spend from a profitability standpoint, I've seen earning this one or 2% cash back on cards, literally double the profitability of an agency, right. It's like, maybe that gets us, it's a small like piece, but massively profitable, if you can get right. And what like kind of a crappy way of doing this is, or like the old school way, which it's just, you know, like who does to, to kill it for doing it. Cause like, this is the way that you do it. It's like you make your clients pay all that ad, spend up front and then you basically have to go keep track of it relentlessly on the backend.

Zach (15:00):

Right. Um, it's kind of accounting nightmare, like a little bit. Um, and, and what we did with ad Carter was like, Hey, let's, let's put the cash back in the hands of the agency. So the agency can refer into the ad card. The client can put their payment source on file, put the card on file with the ad account. And then the agency can earn the cash back without having to go through all the hoopla of billing them upfront. And while also having the client have some level of float, right? So like kind of the downside and this probably isn't as relevant for your, for your market, like halo, cause they're spending, you know, maybe a thousand $5,000 a month on ads, but like for larger accounts, you know, somebody's spending 10, 20, 30, 50 grand like good luck trying to get those guys to pay for their Advil, like up front. Right? Yeah. You're going to get like negative float. Uh, so true. You can only do that with the little guys. Yeah. So anyways, that's my, that's my, uh, native live advertisement for ad card. This particular use case. And um, if you can pull it off, I think it has huge implications in a longterm profitability, uh, of the agency.

Zach (16:13):

This episode is brought to you by funnel Nash's add card, the only charge card exclusively for your digital ad spend. And if you're an ad agency that manages seven or even eight figures a year in media and ad spend for your clients, and you're looking to double your profits over the next six to 12 months, then check out ad card, see the typical agency model is this, you charge 10% of your spend. We make 10 to 20% margin at the end of the day. So that's really one to 2% of your clients spend that is profit in your business. The easiest way to double that is to really find a way to earn in that one to 2% cash back of the card that is on file of your clients has ad account. And before add card we had to do was invoice all your clients for their ad spend upfront really difficult on a cash flow basis and very difficult ask. And then you had to put the card on your own Amex or whatever card of choice to get that level of value back into your business with add card it's entirely different in streamlined. You simply get your clients on add card and make yourself the agency of record and you'll get the cash back. As long as you're managing the ad spend, it's a great way to double your profit without doing any additional work. Check it out@funneldash.com,

Zach (17:34):

But let's dive into the poor ad segment. Let's talk about some ads. Here we go. Let's go, Caleb. What's not working. Um, yeah, so I, I had a real time trying to come up with the poor ad because so many they're hilarious.

Caleb (17:50):

I love just saving bad ads, but this one in particular was really ironic and made me laugh. I've seen it a lot over the last few days and it's from Tik TOK for business. So it's, tick-tock advertising to me on Facebook trying to get me to go advertise on Tik TOK. And for some reason, um, you know, they're targeting by States obviously. So the copy says Texas, um,

Zach (18:17):

Mining, small businesses in Texas, right? Like super personal business in Texas. Yup, yup, yup,

Caleb (18:23):

Exactly. Then in the image, it says Texas, we're inviting small businesses in bold letters, New York sales on Tik TOK. And it's in the image like right next to where it says Texas. And then the headline says Texas again. And I'm like, man, they just set themselves up and they haven't fixed it yet. I've been watching it. And there's some hilarious comments on there. Like haven't you learned from the picante commercials or something. And uh, it's all these advertisers being like, what is going on? And they're talking about how good their platform is and it's just ironic to me. Oh yeah. I mean, in the key aspect here, stop wasting time and money on unrelated audiences is like, Oh, y'all y'all are the ones you really messed up, man. Yeah. Yeah. I'm probably wrong on this. Cause I just heard it from someone else. But they said that like Tik TOK, you can only geographically advertise by state right now or something, which just makes this whole thing even funnier.

Zach (19:18):

Oh my gosh. That's so funny if you're going to do geo-targeting you have to get the geo, right. Uh

Caleb (19:27):

[inaudible]

Zach (19:28):

I love it. I love it. All right. So Kayla let's, let's talk about some financial principles. Let's let's let's dive into this. I think you've come a long way from, I would say your, your days at, at, at the points guy where, you know, your level of let's just say financial strategy or sophistication was like, Hey, let me just kind of go maximize my points for vacations. But like you've been in business now for yourself. You're, you know what it's like to help your clients manage their cashflow, manage your own cashflow. As an ad agency, you've had ups, you've had downs, you've had winning campaigns, you had losses. What are some of your more core financial principles? When you think about investing into growth in investing into ad campaigns, not investing, you know, how do you spend, how do you capitalize business? Like all that stuff could be anything, but like break it down for us. What advice you have for the other agencies and brands listening,

Caleb (20:26):

Things that I did really right early. Um, cause I'd been in internet marketing for five or six years already before a little more than that before I started my own agency. So I got to like hear what works and doesn't work and learn about cashflow and all that. And um, so one of the best things I did is I've always charged my clients upfront immediately, no matter what, no work starts until you get paid upfront. Um, and then as far as like targeting and getting clients and I th I would think this would apply really to any niche is you have to make sure that the numbers work. So I like chiropractic because often times the practices I'm working with they're their lifetime value of a patient is over 2000. In fact, their, um, their patient value is usually around 2000 on the first sale.

Caleb (21:13):

If they're a cash based practice, which is mostly what I work with. Um, and because that's opposed to a chiropractor that's doing like insurance only pay per visit. And then they have to bill out to the insurance. The cashflow cycles are backwards. So when you combine that with how I run my business and I want my money up front, I'm saying, all right, you're going to pay me up front. You're gonna pay Facebook upfront. And then for the first three months, you're going to be backwards because you got to catch up on insurance and it's just slow and not good. So for me, philosophy of the money is really, really important. And the timing is everything.

Zach (21:48):

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it comes back down to payback period, right? Particularly for your clients, right? There's two lessons here. Number one, don't take insurance seriously, but I mean that, I mean, that's that time to break even, or time to profitability would be my guess is gotta be three to six months. If you're going through insurance, like cycles,

Caleb (22:13):

That's terrible. And my clients that are insurance-based in the past, they don't stick around very long because of exactly that they could have a cool practice. They could be big and maybe even be a seven figure practice. But if they do that, then they're going to have a hard time hiring a Facebook ad agency, um, efficiently, because exactly they're not going to get paid back on it three to six months out. And then they're just going to be confused and feel weird, even though I'm doing everything the same on my end, as I would for a cash based practice, that's going to be wildly profitable on month one.

Zach (22:45):

Yeah. I mean like essentially what you're asking for, right. If they're on an insurance is a, my retainers, let's say 3,500 bucks a month, we need 3,500 in spend or, you know, give or take like whatever that looks like. And then you got to float that out essentially for six months. So you're asking them to write a $42,000 check before they know it works. Right. Like they're going to know like maybe a couple months in, but it's kinda like, yeah, like I know this is working. I know it's working, but I have early like seeing the, the, like the payday, right. Like we got, and they have to have serious faith, right? Like that, that all this is going to continue, uh, to really play out. So I, I think that the lesson of focusing an understanding your client's cashflow is something that I think agencies that have tried to do what you've done for 10, 15 years still don't think about to this day, which is how, how do my clients unit economics, how do my client's cashflow works? And then there's different pockets within that. And then understanding like which ones have those unit economics in those cashflows yield high value, high LTV, retained clients, right? Like I think like hats off to you, like I'm clapping.

Caleb (24:05):

Thank you. I mean, that, that's the most important thing. Um, and especially as the agency marketing agency, world is getting more and more crowded each day due to internet marketers, selling people on the biz op side of that. Uh, it's important that if you're a real OGE and you're serious about running an actual business, not just, you know, making five grand off of a few clients and you don't even know what you're doing. Um, the difference between that person and like standing out, adding value, keeping clients for two and a half years, uh, the difference is understanding their business model and communicating with them. And because usually people have like an intuitive sense, whether they're conscious of it or aware of it or not, if their client is successful and most agency owners don't want to have those conversations. I know I didn't. I used to avoid them all the time, but now I understand that like confronting that head on and like digging into the numbers and figuring out where things are going wrong is critical. Um, like one time I had a functional medicine doctor and set them up with everything. We were getting them leads at our normal cost of everybody else. The system was running, but their CA was just totally screwing it up, over and over. She was sending her, she wasn't following our scripts and she was sending texts, trying to upsell them on a machine called the whole cat. Oh, I have no idea what it was.

Caleb (25:27):

They were even explaining. We're going to use that for our poor segment on the next month. Literally they'd opt in for, for like their $97 functional medicine consultation, and then get a text saying, hello, it's me from the place. Would you like to upgrade for $150 for a ho cat session? That's it no wonder nobody's coming in. What are you even doing? I told them to stop and they didn't stop. And then, you know, I lost them, but I try for the best for me. I love it.

Zach (26:02):

Another, some more golden nuggets here is, you know, it's one thing to understand. Okay. I think understanding is this, this first place of consciousness of, of knowing that there's a problem here, right? Like agency's prior, I would say ignored this and now you're starting to understand it. So the next step of, of understanding is, and, you know, being able to properly diagnose, you know, what's healthy cashflow, what's not healthy cashflow. And this is really where, you know, part of our learnings at FunnelDash and working with thousands of agencies is where I think this ultimately heads over the next couple years is then to being able to not just understand or diagnose, but then to be able to solve those problems. And that really means offering clients financial products as a way to solve those problems. Whether that means like, Hey, do you need just like a better card?

Zach (27:00):

Do you need, um, uh, alone, you know, fund your ad spend, or do you need like, you know, help managing cashflow and not everybody's going to need those. But I think that the agencies that succeed are going to get there the fastest, because they're going to be value add. And then in five years, time is going to be the norm, right. You're going to have the ad agency. That's the basically, you know, like is, if you look at the, like the ad agency, gosh, six years ago, you only had the, the media buyer, right? Like, and then now you have this full stack marketer like yourself, Caleb, who's doing the funnel and the ads, I think the next wave is somebody that's able to look at ads, the funnel and the financial economics behind it, and really solving that, that, that problem, I think we're early, but people are starting to understand that it's a conversation that they need to have. So to ultimately work with clients uh long-term so I'll get off my soap box again. Um, but you're just laying them up for me, Kayla. So I can't help myself.

Caleb (28:09):

Yeah. Well, I totally agree with that, honestly. And, um, when I've rubbed shoulders with like really elite, like huge agencies that are just managing millions a month, uh, what I've learned from them is that they don't view themselves as like a marketing agency. They view themselves as a business consultant. And so they'll get in there and they'll do exactly what you said. They'll get in, get to the bottom of the Mo there and see what's under the waters of their finances and, um, hook them up with financial services. Whether that's a billing system, that's going to save them a couple of points, uh, on, on every dollar that comes in or more loans or better cards. Um, because that's, who's going to win the more problems that you can solve in my friends that have these bigger agencies. It's never just the Facebook ads, it's the software stack, it's the metrics stack. And then they just continue to vertically integrate and add value. Uh, and I think that's an awesome thing that people can do with the, with the ads cards.

Zach (29:05):

Yeah. And I would say the opposite of that, right? Like let's just forecast in the future. What does this look like for somebody that doesn't make this shift? That is the frustrated agency owner that talks about their clients behind their backs and complaints that they, that they, that they churn, right. That they're like, ah, I told them they had a winning campaign, but then they canceled after like three months and this continues to happen. And that's because the agency is only focused on the unit economics, right? Like if I say I got gotta, they're putting a dollar in, they're getting $3 out, but they never asked when, when is that $3 like coming back out and now when is important

Caleb (29:43):

And often agency owners are only focusing on like the ad spend and they'll talk ROI numbers just on ad spend while nine, including their own agency costs or the cost of the, uh, of the, uh, client's team. That's doing all the lead nurturing or the call center that's involved. Because sometimes when I dive in with, with a client and I find out, Oh my gosh, your business is so inefficient. And there's so many other things going on that even though I'm killing it on the ads, it, you're still not breaking even on this at the right time or at all. And that's when you got to get in there and fix things. And we had that happen with, uh, one huge client. They had like three, uh, three different locations and we're sending them tons of medical leads. And one of the offices just wasn't getting the sales numbers and they kept moving the metrics for us.

Caleb (30:34):

So they'd be like, hit this cost per lead. Then they'd be like, Oh, well now you need to hit the cost per lead and this sales metric. And I'm like, okay, I don't have anything to do with that. And we kept telling them, it's their sales team over and over until finally I lined up another agency to just get rid of this client because I didn't, it was just not worth it. And they weren't listening. And then, uh, this other agency comes in with that business consultant mindset and just tells them, Hey, you got to go in and audit your sales team at this underperforming location first, before we do anything, they go in there and do that. And they fire everybody on the spot and closed. They closed some of the leads that day themselves. And they're like, these leads are fine. What are you talking about? And so we've been taking heat this whole time, just because we weren't, you know, acting like a business consultant diving in all the way and forcing the client to figure out what's going on.

Zach (31:20):

Totally. And Taleb you set me up again.

Speaker 5 (31:25):

Good.

Zach (31:26):

I'm just going to say this podcast to everybody, because part of giving someone that, you know, an agency or a marketing partner visibility into the overall blended OSS to acquire a customer, right. It's it's agency fees or software fees, there's, there's like more than just the media spend. And so part of how we design ad card is with the idea that you spin up a virtual card for each line item that goes into your customer acquisition costs, right? So like you would have, um, a, you know, a card across all these expenses, know your agency or your partner's not going to have access to your like PNL and your financial reports. Right. But like, to be able to put all of those customer acquisition related metrics onto their own dedicated cards so that you could see the full picture, um, at the financial level, not at like the pixel level

Speaker 5 (32:21):

Of like what it could be here later,

Zach (32:23):

It would be like 20, 30% off. Uh, but really take that into consideration. So, um, you know, sponsored to today by ad card. Um, but I digress.

Speaker 5 (32:35):

Yeah.

Zach (32:36):

So this, this has been an amazing episode. I know we're, we're short on time. Um, Kayla, tell us what you're up to next. What are you excited about and how can people get in touch? Yeah. Awesome. Well, you can hit me up on Facebook, just look up Kayla pauses and patient autopilot. Um, my website's patient autopilot.com and I am about to scale with the paper show model and just leveraging the amazing marketing technologies and softwares that we have today, um, to really sell a machine and grow people's businesses and do some of the things that we were talking about, like, uh, being more of a business consultant and solving problems at a deeper level. So happy to connect with anybody and answer any questions that you have. That's awesome. Caleb, it's always a pleasure. It's great to catch up. Thanks for all the land. Absolutely been an amazing guest. We'll have you back soon.

Zach (33:26):

Thank you. Awesome. Thanks Zach fit you guys later. Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the rich ed or ed podcast. If you're like me and listen to podcasts on the go, go ahead and subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and rich [inaudible] dot com slash podcast. And if you absolutely love the show, go ahead and leave a review and a comment share with a friend. If you do take a copy screenshot of it, email me zack@funneldash.com. Show me you left a review. I'll give you a free copy of the rich add for ed book. Learn more about the book. Go to rich ed for a.com. Leave a review that a rich ed poor at.com/review. Thanks again.