Gil David (02:32):

Yeah. So I guess my whole, my journey into, into where we're at now started probably when I was at uni over here or, you know, college over here and that was must be 18 years ago now. So you can come tell my age by that. Um, and I, my degree was in marketing and that was like, it's kinda crazy when I look back on it now, because there was nothing digital that existed back then. I think my, I don't know if Google even had ads back then, but Facebook wasn't, um, Instagram definitely wasn't around snap wasn't around. Um, so it's, it's funny when I look back and think how different different the world of marketing is, is now to what it was back then. But I think it was a good, it was a good way for getting a grounding in kind of general principles of marketing.

Gil David (03:14):

Um, but then there was four, I think it was only four PS of marketing and now there's see seven or eight that people talk about. Um, Oh man. Yeah. I've seen that. Yeah. It's, it's basically the same kind of thing, but they just expand it. So it's their own, their own thing they can say. Yeah. They invaded the seven PS of marketing. Um, and then, yeah, and then most of my background is in health and fitness clubs. So, uh, worked my way up in sales and marketing, um, regional sales and marketing. And then I was actually managing health clubs for a bit. And then I just kind of got a bit bored of what I was doing. Um, I was thinking, you know, what did I enjoy most about, about my job? You know, it definitely, wasn't a receptionist setting up late or having to discipline people and stuff like that.

Gil David (03:55):

Um, and it wasn't really the marketing side of thing. And then in particular, Facebook ads was what I enjoyed doing from what I was doing back then. Um, and then I was thinking that this was so I was about 35. I was always wanting to have my own business. Um, I was moving anyway from where I was at to, to be with my now my wife. Um, and I thought, you know, if I don't go out on my own now I'll never do it. Um, and then started off as more of a consultant, um, just, you know, freelance working with smaller businesses. Um, what am I, I've got more and more experience on bigger and bigger accounts. Um, I was, I was lucky to get two people that are kind of an important on, on my way up was, uh, the Pashman data if you guys know him.

Gil David (04:34):

Yeah. Um, so I think he actually like, uh, other know he seen stuff. I was posting in Facebook groups and if I want it to be a modern his group, that was the first one. And then I think it was only a couple of months later, um, Tim bird came to me, he said, instead of something and you know, he liked the kind of stuff that I'd been posting. He was setting up this new ad leaks group, um, that I want to, I want to be a part of that. Um, and so, yeah, that must be like two, two years ago now, something like that. And then that, that really kind of, as well as me sharing knowledge that I had from, from stuff that I was doing in accounts that really kind of leveled leveled me up because of the company I was keeping kind of people that I was speaking with, the people that aren't in my network.

Gil David (05:14):

Um, and then, yeah, and then kind of, after a few months you put it off about a year. I realized that, you know, things were growing. I couldn't just do everything myself. And then it has grown into, into a small agency now. Um, you know, I have a small handful of, of contractors and staff that I work with. Uh, I don't, I don't ever want it to grow into a big agency. I probably could go down that route, but you know, I think I'm a bit too old. I've got other kind of priorities. Um, so, you know, keep keeping it fairly small, working with clients that I really want to work with, um, businesses that I've, I find interesting and that their funds run the ads for, um, and getting results as well. So I take all the accounts where he posts and he, because most of our business w fortunately we don't have to advertise to get clients. Um, most of them come through referrals or people that see my content or know me from, from groups and stuff like that. Yeah.

Dylan Carpenter  (06:04):

Oh yeah. You got to play it safe in those referrals situations there.

Gil David (06:07):

Yeah. Um, I mean, cause it's coming through me, you know, it's not a case of, you know, it's like the classic big agency thing where, um, people go to someone because they know no, whoever the CEO is and then they get passed off to it. And it's, uh, some junior that's making 10 bucks an hour, that's actually running the account. Um, but even in our, our smaller accounts, you know, I'm still very involved in the strategy and making sure that we're delivering results for the clients, because like I say, it's, it's, it's, you know, personally attached to my name.

Dylan Carpenter  (06:33):

What's the ratio from a counselor in the UK to us. I'm kind of curious on that.

Gil David (06:38):

Um, so probably putting out the total, we're probably about 30, 35% of the accounts, uh, or us. Um, and now we're mainly like when we started out, I was, we were doing bits of lead gen and stuff like that as well, but now it's, it's mainly e-comm focused. Um, and then apart from that, there's a couple of other areas. I think it's good being at least a little bit diversified. So even though we're very heavy on Facebook and Instagram, we do a bit of snap, but also do some, some consulting, some white label stuff with, with other agencies. Um, and then because we're in FMP for, for tech services, we do get some clients directly from Facebook, which is, which is a nice kind of sideline for media buying. And it's, it's definitely a lot less stressful as well.

Dylan Carpenter  (07:18):

Oh yeah. Yeah. We'll do some texts for ya. Oh, I see. You're asking, do you see room for improvement? You know?

Gil David (07:24):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's why because, you know, because yeah, there were, you know, they already, you know, there's no, there's no question that they're not going to work with you on Facebook. Um, at different points. They, they normally give them a kind of ad credit as well towards the work they get done. So, um, that's nice. And this is something that I've been really thankful for. Cause it's a good, you know, it's a good source of income for the, for the business.

Dylan Carpenter  (07:46):

Yeah, no, that's a game changer there that it creates such an authority I would imagine. But yeah, but shoot, man, let's go ahead and segue into this rich ad segment. I've been pumped up Bivens. This one, I love customized gear, but is this one of your clients city locks?

Gil David (08:04):

Yes. One of the classes we won't run as for yet.

Dylan Carpenter  (08:06):

Heck yeah. So let's go ahead and dive into this bad boy. We've got some kind of longest copy, super customized hats. We got a Bitly link, the actual copy itself, go ahead and kind of dissect this bad boy and give us some context. And ultimately I'm kind of curious on how his ad did for you.

Gil David (08:26):

Yeah. So there's that, and it's not, it's not just this ad it's and it's not, it's not so much the copy either because I run this with different copy versions, um, that that's like the O G version of the ad. Um, and then it's an example of how, and I think a lot of advertisers forget this, but iterating on what works is, is huge. And sometimes people get away from that or they think, you know, we have to try completely different stuff. So even taking this same video, um, using it, um, as a header or hero for collection ads, um, it's been been big, um, doing that as well. Um, chopping the video up in different ways sometimes. Um, we actually actually, because, cause that video did so well, the client got, got one reshot with the same customer there and that one didn't do as well.

Gil David (09:13):

But um, yeah, just using that same video in different ways, cutting it in, in different ways using on top of collection ads was a game changer as well. And we got a lot more, more juice out of it. Um, and running it with different copy as well as has got more juice of it. So, you know, it's a reminder of the value of, of taking something that works, um, and just, just iterating on it and testing different things around it to keep, keep getting sustained performance out of it. And that ad, um, it's, I'm not gonna say exactly, but w you know, we're talking seven figures in revenue, just, just from that one ad or that one, one video.

Dylan Carpenter  (09:48):

Okay. I wasn't expecting that. That's pretty juicy. There was this from dynamic creative or an actual kind of page posts ad more?

Gil David (09:57):

Uh, no, that, that was, uh, just a video that, that the client got done. Uh, they they've had all the other ones, like similar to that, obviously, because, because that style worked and they've worked to an extent, but, but not, not quite as well as that, as that one ad has done. And the other versions of that ad and just kind of use it in different ways,

Dylan Carpenter  (10:16):

This being a seven figure kind of ad, or was this an ad that you put in a dollar get two bucks out, or was it one of those where you put a dollar in and get five or six out was a pretty, you know, somewhat solid a row as kind of there? Or was it pretty like, Oh my goodness

Gil David (10:31):

Are you're talking. Um, I have to check actually what, what lifetime rice is on all the ads running this, but you put it at least three X on this one.

Dylan Carpenter  (10:42):

Yeah. And for your audience targeting, I mean, for this kind of customized gear, was it pretty much anyone and everyone, did you have a specific demographic you were going after because it's kind of a tricky one? I would imagine it seems pretty niche.

Gil David (10:54):

Yeah. When we've tried different ones and then what what's working best in there at the moment is you're probably seeing this trend as well, but, um, so 10% lookalike stacks that they're working well, um, and also some, some open targeting and then mixing in as well. Um, BPA is top of funnel, which again is something that I think a lot of people forget. They, they, they default to using running dynamic carousels and not, not even connection ads. Cause that's something again that people forget, but, but using those top of funnel as well, um, is that a really good results in this account?

Dylan Carpenter  (11:28):

That's a snazzy one. Yeah. I was like, man, I'm kind of curious how this is going to do in here, but this is a super legit account.

Gil David (11:35):

Yeah. Frick. Yeah. That'd be fun to write, you know, it's, it's fun products, you know, they, they come up with good stuff all the time as good creative, um, so that, you know, that they're really good clients to work with. So I'm, I'm pleased that we've been able to get good results.

Dylan Carpenter  (11:49):

The video doesn't seem very professionally done. So, I mean, I feel like we've had a lot of brands on like Trump Haas was a good example to where, you know, they, they spent a lot of money on creative, but their actual rich ad ended up being someone, they went to a little festival on, Hey, try this hot sauce. Let's get your reaction to this kind of brand. It can really have that. User-generated kind of, you know, aspect to it as well, which is pretty snazzy.

Gil David (12:12):

Yeah. And that's another trend that we've seen over the last, probably six to 12 months, which is as UGC. And again, people might default to thinking, Oh, UGC, that should be bottom of funnel. It should be in retargeting. But actually top of funnel, it works really, really well for us in, you know, across several different accounts. Um, and just, just make an ads that don't look too much directly. Like ads are interesting to people.

Dylan Carpenter  (12:36):

Oh, exactly. I mean, I can definitely count on multiple hands. How many videos we've used that are like cost more in 10 K to make and they don't do anything for ads. And I'm like, Ooh, let's go hit up some of these influencers.

Gil David (12:50):

Yeah. Get someone to film something on their iPhone and that's it.

Dylan Carpenter  (12:54):

All right. Well hell yeah, man. Seven figures in this bad boy, that's a quite a juicy ad.

Zach Johnson  (13:00):

This episode is brought to you by funnel Nash's add card, the only charge card exclusively for your digital ad spend. And if you're an ad agency that manages seven or even eight figures a year in media and ad spend for your clients, and you're looking to double your profits over the next six to 12 months, then check out ad card. See the typical agency model is this. You charge 10% of your spend. You make 10 to 20% margin at the end of the day. So that's really one to 2% of your clients spend that is profit in your business. The easiest way to double that is a really find a way to earn in that one to 2% cash back of the card that is on file of your clients as ad account. And before add card we had to do was invoice all your clients for their ad spend up front. She's really difficult on a cash flow basis and very difficult. And then you had to put the card on your own Amex or whatever card of choice to get that level of value back into your business with add card it's entirely different in streamline. You simply get your clients on add card and make yourself the agency of record and you'll get the cash back. As long as you're managing the ad spend, it's a great way to double your profit without doing any additional work. Check

It out@funneldash.com.

Dylan Carpenter  (14:19):

Let's go ahead and ease the mood a little bit. Dive into this poor ad segment. I know you've heard of Fiverr. Um, I've never seen a fiber ad being promoted, but go ahead and shout your messenger. Let's get some first reactions. And just so everybody's aware, it seems like this guy has a Fiverr account. He's trying to get some more business, so he makes an ad for it and it's not very great. So guilt. Oh yeah. You're going to love this one, man. Yeah, I think, uh, yeah,

Gil David (14:52):

Not, not very great is an understatement. Um, I mean th the first thing is that it just looks spammy it's it's horizontal. So that gets lost now square should have been what everyone's using or, or four or five released two years, three years even.

Dylan Carpenter  (15:08):

Um, and how's the religious book writing be this. Yeah. Um, no, this was I, so I just surf the web. So I may have found this morning, but yeah, that one doesn't. Yeah. So I would say, I probably found, I probably got hit by 60% of the ads we roast, but this one may have just been from somebody, but it was posted in the past two weeks. So it's pretty brand spanking new.

Gil David (15:39):

I mean, it just looks spammy. So yeah, just the way it's just the Fiverr logo is not from Fiverr. So there's, there's an immediate disconnect there, there, the pages go with cigarette Chism. Um, so it looks kind of foreign. Another note you wouldn't know. Cause I think, Oh yeah, it's a, it's an American or it's a UK brand.

Dylan Carpenter  (15:58):

Oh, all I can watch, like the actual Hassan, uh, uh, send, send a message. So I mean, if for those who are listening, we'll have this in the show notes, but we'll go ahead and say, this is how you don't run ads. You know, it's a great example. All caps, no call to action. You know, it's good for the notebook.

Gil David (16:27):

Why the performance? Isn't great on that one.

Dylan Carpenter  (16:30):

Hey, plots with the conversion rates actually 40%. And that's why I get it. Yeah. Oh, Fiverr.

Gil David (16:40):

Yeah. I mean, that's probably one of those they'll get a load of people, like just clicking on send message by accident and that's it. That's all it will get.

Dylan Carpenter  (16:47):

Yeah. I, you know, it's, it's times like these where I wish I could find the guy who did this and like, what, what was your thought process, man? How are the results? Cause who knows? It could be so bad. Like did good, you know what I mean? Like it's, Facebook's weird, but I, you know, I think we could better, better say it's not a very good ad

Gil David (17:06):

And just, I'm still trying to work out what religious book writing computation is.

Dylan Carpenter  (17:12):

I don't even know how you target for this man. Like, uh, yeah, that'd be, I wish I could see that continue reading. I'm not gonna lie to you. I tried to look up the page. I couldn't find anything. I'm like, what else gonna

Gil David (17:27):

Have to go on, look on the page,

Dylan Carpenter  (17:29):

Dig in man. You know, those poor ads, they always ease the mood a little bit. It's funded as rows, somebody else's ads who aren't yours, you know, let's be real. It's, it's hard to talk trash and antsy. Right? Uh, I'm guilty of that, but let's go ahead and dive into this kind of final segment of the, kind of more taking a page out of that dad, poor dad book. So diving into some sort of, you know, financial tips, you know, we've had a lot of, you know, startups, businesses agencies, and all walks of life, but it's super interesting on the kind of, you know, what they think the super juicy financial tips are. So in your world, what would you kind of, you know, give it to some of the listeners out there and, you know, we got a ton of agencies and media buyers businesses. So like what kind of tips would you have out there on the more financial side of things?

Gil David (18:15):

So I guess there's two, one something that I heard a while back, and it's something that I kind of did unconsciously subconsciously anyway, and it's more of a general business set rather than a, a media buying or agency one. So it's pretty basic. And it was just, they said, you know, you should always keep at least, um, 25% of your, of your revenue, um, and just put it away and not doing anything with it. I think especially over the last, you know, with what's happened in the world the last few months, that's even more relevant than, than it would have been before. Um, and just having that kind of buffer. So that, that gives you, like, at least it should be at least three months, um, revenue as, as a buffer. So then obviously if you're an agency, because I know a lot of agencies had to, um, I think it was a bit different in the States, but they kind of what's called furloughed their staff over here, um, or had to make people redundant, um, because you know, they lost clients and the only thing they could do was, was cut their costs and the first cost they could cut their staff.

Gil David (19:14):

Um, so yeah, so yeah, brilliant really simple thing is just, just kind of having, putting at least 25% away somewhere, you know, you're not, you're not touching and it's always there if you need it as a buffer. So that, that's kind of a more, more general tip than that. I think that applies to any business really.

Gil David (19:30):

And then with agencies, and this is more to do with the way we work with agencies. And I always speak with our agency owners and we go backwards and forwards on different models and stuff. And maybe it doesn't make sense for, for huge agencies because they may have a lot more costs than again, that kind of goes back to the first point, but you know, when they have big offices and you know, you've got a hundred, 200 staff members, but the way we like to work with, with our clients is, is more of a partnership. Um, because I don't like the whole agency client dynamic in the first place. I think it's a little bit, um, puts you on a bit of a negative, for example, sometimes to start with, so I always say to our clients, you know, we'd like to work as a partner, you know, w we're not an employee.

Gil David (20:12):

Um, so yeah, you have to be clear about that because otherwise I can get things off on the wrong foot, but you know, we'll work, we'll work with you as apartments to grow the business. And then part of that is the way, the way we work with, and this is more if they'd been running ads a little bit, um, and they know the numbers, um, and it's, it's working off more of a performance basis. So it's, it's, you know, going through with them, you know, what, what is your, what is your, your goals in terms of ROS or CPA, whatever the main goal is, um, what is your, your baseline, your breakeven, um, or those numbers, and then setting a target a little bit above that, maybe. Um, and then that's the first, first tier we have. And that might be what I would like is maybe 5% of revenue from Facebook ads. Then having at least one, one to two higher tiers. So say, say that's a two X. So if the account is that two X, um, I we're saying it would be 5% of the revenue,

Dylan Carpenter  (21:05):

Is that just based off the Facebook ads or as the business as a whole?

Gil David (21:11):

Cause we only, mainly, mainly just were on Facebook. So yeah, I mean, it, wouldn't be fair to really take a chunk out of the whole businesses, especially if they're running out the channels themselves. Um, and plus like if, if they are running, if they, if they've got sort of emails set up and, um, you know, we'd run some basic Google and snap campaigns as well for clients, but it, it all helps the Facebook ads and you know what it's like with attribution, there will be some kind of crossover if, if they've got another agency running, running, they Google maybe. Um, so yeah, so that that'd be based off of ads manager for us. I do know some agencies that may be, um, if, uh, if they're running more for the client, then that's out of the whole revenue, um,

Dylan Carpenter  (21:49):

Typically have a base retainer there on the performance side towards, you know, X, if we hit this it's that 5% or is it a straight up just that flatbread?

Gil David (21:57):

Yeah. So I'd always have it, some agencies, they might have that and nothing else, but you know, for me, that's, that's too much of a risk. So, um, you know, we, we always have a minimum retainer, which, um, at least, you know, make sure that, you know, our costs and all times covered in that there's a bit of profit in there for the agency. Um, but it's definitely, you know, it gives us more, more of an incentive to, to be performing for the business at the levels they want. And then generally the higher tier has a bit more like about 10% of revenue from ads. Um, and then that's obviously, you know, where, you know, we can make more than, than a standard ad spend model, but, you know, w we're kind of, it's a bit of a risk because we're, we're basing that on our performance and banking that we can get the results for the client.

Dylan Carpenter  (22:40):

That's the way to do it these days. I mean, you both got a little bit more skin in the games once you have that performance, you know, insensitive, I feel like it's such a win-win. And I mean, even from the point, you kind of mentioned a little bit earlier, Hey, we're coming as a partner. I think that's a good way to look at them versus, Hey, we're not an employee, we're not an agency we're looking to kind of more partner with you towards like, you know, they're more electronic help me verse, you know, make a quick buck more or less.

Gil David (23:06):

Yeah. Is that fair? And again, you know, the way I run things, you know, ideally I want to be working with the client for, for years. Um, and it's not just cases having to take on clients to make sure that the bill was a paid, which I know is it, you know, it's fair enough. That's a consideration for, for bigger agencies with more bills. Um, but still, you know, you know, it's like some, some agencies, you know, they just take anyone on and they just put a junior on the account and they're churning and burning clients every three, four months. Um,

Dylan Carpenter  (23:34):

And that's such a real thing. The agency model, every, every one of their mom has one, it seems like. So I feel like retention just worse and worse these days.

Gil David (23:43):

Yeah. When I was at, um, you know, that people get, it's an easy thing to do, you know, you can set up, you probably say like live in groups that then, but people that get sold, you know, you can have a Facebook ads agency and you'd have to know anything about Facebook ads, just join a group, find a couple of good media buys the kind of remote somewhere. Um, and then they find people in, you kind of get good media buys in like Eastern Europe and places like that. Um, but yeah, you know, it's not the way I'd want to do business. Just kind of misleading people and making out, like I've got a big agency and I know about Facebook ads and I'm an expert and you know, I'm just, I don't know what they are, estate agents or something, or realtors, you call them in the States. And they just set up an agency on the side and there's other people doing all the work.

Dylan Carpenter  (24:33):

Oh yeah. And I mean, even from my white label days, the amount of agencies I would chat with who had no idea what they were doing or how new they were trying to come in, like a big dog, I'm just like, Oh my gosh, man. Like these clients, aren't gonna last more than two months with you.

Gil David (24:48):

It's crazy. And then they'll just, they'll just take anyone on, you know, because they don't know any better. They're just, they're just sales people basically. So again, you've probably seen instead of, but you know, they give people really unrealistic ideas of what kind of returns they're going to get. And then we've all taken on clients from people and they say, Oh, I've been burned by two or three different agencies before they said I was going to get a five X and I was only getting a two X,

Dylan Carpenter  (25:13):

Well, first of all, your average order value is 25 bucks. You know? So let's get rid of

Gil David (25:17):

Yeah. You to get a flat dollar CPA is, you know, we're not in 2015 there

Dylan Carpenter  (25:23):

For freaking a real man. Yeah. I was reading something and it may have been from Nick Shackleford, like diving into, you know, I have a lot of small spenders, you know, it's easy to get four to seven X, I mean even 10 X sometimes, but once you start spending more than a hundred K a month, I mean, pushing three X is almost pretty unrealistic to where I don't know if I even know any brands that spend more than a hundred K that are getting a three X where luckily they understand, you know, the LTV models, you know, kinda more in effect for them versus trying to make a profit on that first side of things. But expectations, these days are crazy. And it's just from guys posting groups, Hey, check out. This tenant is 20 X to where it's just false expectations, which hurts everybody at the end of the day.

Gil David (26:02):

Yeah. And you say that last thing that a lot more recent in groups, also, people are posting that they're spending more, they're spending more like, like six figures and they're getting maybe a 2.5 for like, something like that. And there's people like commenting on that's crazy. I'd get fired from all my fines. If I was only getting a 2.5 X and it's like, okay, but you're spending like maybe 10 20 K max a month and it's completely different, different ball game. Um, and I always say to like, if any business, if they're spending more than a hundred count ads and they, they say that they need more than more than three X to, to be profitable. Then for me, that's something wrong with the business rather than the, yeah. It's all the agency or the media buyer. Oh, big time. There's so many

Dylan Carpenter  (26:44):

Moving parts to where I've had numerous occasions where I'm like, look, man, the front end KPI's are good. There's something up with a product page, your shipping costs or somethings where everybody likes to point a finger at somebody, you know, it's, it's fun sometimes. You know, it is definitely the ads sometimes, but it's nice when it's like, Hey, this is actually killing it on the ad side. It's something over here. It's where it's like, woo. You know,

Gil David (27:08):

But yeah, but it's, you know, it's easy to blame, you know, but I suppose it's the blame is the media buy and it could be that, you know, they might change something on the website or, you know, there's a global pandemic. Um, but yeah, the person they blame is the media buyer.

Dylan Carpenter  (27:21):

Oh, it's true. That it's just the way of the game. Well, just get used to it. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess we'll snap, man. This was killer super valuable. Appreciate the time there. But Hey, working, everybody kind of get in touch with you and what do you have kind of popping up coming soon?

Gil David (27:43):

So I'm, I'm pretty active on my active on, I'm actually more active on probably LinkedIn Twitter and Instagram than I am on, on my own Facebook. But, um, yeah, so you can catch me on, on LinkedIn. My Twitter is at Gil underscore on the mg. Uh, Instagram is at go run G and I'm always happy me. I found it has any questions. I'm happy answering those and talking crap about ads. Um, and then the website, if you, if you want to email me if you're interest in working together or anything, the websites www.run, hyphen g.com. You can hit me up from there.

Dylan Carpenter  (28:19):

Well, hell yeah, man. Gil much appreciated. Thanks for hopping on man. We had an absolute blast.

Zach Johnson  (28:32):

Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the rich, add more at podcasts. If you're like me and listen to podcasts on the go, go ahead and subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and rich ed [inaudible] dot com slash podcast. And if you absolutely love the show, go ahead and leave a review and a comment share with a friend. If you do take a copy screenshot of it, email me zach@funneldash.com. Show me you left a review. I'll give you a free copy of the rich ad or ed book to learn more about the book. Go to rich ed for a.com to leave a review that a rich ed or ed.com/review. Thanks again.