Zach (02:24):

Yeah. Today's guest is, uh, the author of the bestselling book on Facebook advertising called theultimate guide to Facebook advertising. He's an O G he's the original OJI host of a perpetual trafficpublished by digital marketer, which is awesome podcasts. And also the founder of dominate webmedia, uh, which I would say is probably one of the first like flagship Facebook ad agencies that thenwent on to sell a ton of Facebook ad education courses and certifications and coaching programs andagency training. And there's a ton of really successful Facebook ad agencies in our ecosystem. Uh, todaythat really came out, uh, and were born out of Keith's, uh, training, uh, over at dominate web media. Sothe guys, uh, gosh, probably overseen, uh, hundreds of millions of dollars in and Facebook and Instagram ad spend. And, uh, today we're going to be diving into it. Uh, I love it. I'm super excited. So atfurther ado, Keith Krantz, man, welcome to the show.

Keith (03:38):
Glad to be on. I'm excited. It should be fun. Good, good times.

Zach (03:42):

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, man. So everybody that's listen to the show. You give everybody a little bit about, um,you know, I just kinda went through like seven years of history of your career, but like get everybody upto speed about what you're doing right now and, uh, what you're working on these days.

Keith (03:58):

Yeah, no problem. No, it's been crazy, man. I'm doing this for a long time. You know, we've got started inlike 2010, I guess, uh, 11, but I mean, yeah, there's a lot of people that are [inaudible] more than that,but, um, uh, before that, you know, I, I, I went to college and become an airline pilot and thentransitioned into my entrepreneurial world. And about 2003 while I was still a pilot, that's when theentrepreneurial spirit kicked in realized I, I didn't, didn't want to be, I was basically a prisoner of myseniority number, flying airplanes, you know, um, just cog in a wheel. I felt like. So that led me intoentrepreneurship and owning some local businesses and, and, and then, and really, I think having thatexperience of having local businesses and one of the top, um, number two out of, uh, number two andnumber five franchise out of about 60 locations.

Keith (04:43):

And, um, back then, and that's what kind of, what led me to, to really, really see in the opportunity ofthe ad platform early on. And so, you know, fast forward to, like you said, you know, second edition,third edition, ultimate guide hosting the podcast for all these years and really building an agency, butalso selling courses and coaching with all these clients. Um, what I realized is that, uh, look, I startedlooking back at all of the most successful campaigns like, uh, David Ogilvy. Uh, if you go back and searchDavid Ogilvy in the archives of YouTube, you can find him talking, uh, having some interviews and talkingabout like, here's a, here's a good ad right here. This ran for about 20 years, right? Oh, wow, wow, yourad. Uh, and you know, that's more, a lot of those are branding ads. So it's a lot of the repetition is key.

Keith (05:35):

They're not direct response. Uh, but he, but they, they, you know, they would really integrate that directresponse with branding. And so I started looking back and I started really auditing all of our bestcampaigns. And now, you know, at this point we're probably got $250 million in ad spend total ofpersonal clients. Okay. These are agency clients where we're managing their ads or, or we're getting oncalls with not, not on our courses that doesn't include our certified guys and their clients, our students,um, and their ad spend. That's just personal private clients. And that's, um, just every industry you canimagine, you know, half of that is in e-com physical products, half of that as in digital products probably.And then, and then there's, um, within that there's a local service-based businesses, uh, all, all thesedifferent industries we've worked in, it's so crazy over the, over the years.

Keith (06:23):

Um, and so I started thinking of looking back and it was like, you know, this method, this where you cantake the pillars of, I, I kind of realized if it's basically four pillars and it's leveraging direct response, advertising, content, marketing, content, social media, marketing, brand awareness, you know, andbrand recognition and then viral marketing, viral video marketing. And I started realizing that you can,you don't have to have a funny, super funny, like Squatty potty type of video to leverage. You canactually take from the book contagious. One of my favorite books, I always tell people to read everyyear, if you're a direct response marketer, uh, or if you're a big brand, either way, uh, understandingthat the six principles of why things go viral, why things catch on, uh, it doesn't have to always be superfunny and super emotional and awe-inspiring, it can actually just be something that's almost like autility, right?

Keith (07:25):

It's just a tangible, uh, aha moment and a tip. Somebody just wants to tell their friend about and wantsto tag a friend, or wants to save your ad instead of ID or add and, and, or, you know, it can just besomething that, Ooh, I'm the first person to know about. And so I want to, I want to tell somebody elseabout that and tag a friend, or, or, or make a comment on it. So if you, if you start to understand someof this stuff, okay, now my ads on social, this, this element isn't as effective on YouTube, um, in terms ofthe share-ability, because you don't really get to benefit from the engagement stats on YouTube ads likeyou do on Facebook and Instagram. Uh, but the other thing that it does is it builds trust, right? And itbuilds credibility. And so when people click on your ad, uh, they show up on your landing page with theirguard down instead of their guard up. And so we get higher conversion rates, we get higher show uprates on webinars. We get longer watch times and we get higher sales, conversion rates, right. Andhigher average order values.

Zach (08:31):

You feel like your, your, your formulas Keith are like, I feel like your background as a, um, as a pilot iswhat makes your, your marketing checklists and processes like so solid, like I've seen, you know, been alot part of a lot of communities, a lot of Facebook ad programs, things like that. But the checklist thatyou have to create any, you have to like go through with a, is so detailed and it's so routine that I, uh, it,it definitely shows, you know, when you are creating your formulas, when you're presenting aneducating on your formulas, that it's like, it's really well thought through, you know? And, uh, I can'tquite say the same for myself, but I just wanted to give you a little shout out on it.

Keith (09:17):

I appreciate it. It's it's when I, when I take the time to really, you know, really go through something and,you know, I went through about a six month period about a year and a half ago. So not that long ago,2019, and really flush this process out. And I look back, like I said, and audited, everything I used to call itlike the three-step video ad formula, but we've really, really now pulled everything out, really, uh, pulledout the, the, the core DNA. You know, it's basically, it's sorta like electric. Imagine if you could extractthe DNA code of, of the marketing legends, like the direct response marketing legends, like EugeneSchwartz called Hopkins, old Ogilvy cables, you know, Gary Halbert call your Sugarman Kennedy Carltonand all the modern greats. I don't need to list. Uh, and then the content marketing, social mediamarketing greats, like Brian Clark, Joe Pelusi gay bear, Gary Vaynerchuk, Mike Michael sells, or AmyPorterfield, HubSpot John Lee Dumas, Pat Flynn, the list goes on.

Keith (10:09):

And then the brand advertising greats like Nike, you know, like even what red bull is doing, uh, whatGoPro is doing. Uh, and then one of my mentors is Roy H. Williams who's is, you know, is some of his strategies or clients are responsible for, for the majority of the jewelry sales in North America. And so,and then also the viral video sensations, right? Like dollar shave club, Squatty, potty Poo-PourriChatbooks, a good friend of mine, uh, launched a viral video. I saw it go from basically a brand newbusiness, a dollar beard club. The original viral video was kind of a spoof off of the dollar shave club. Andhe literally went from a brand new startup doing a few thousand dollars a day to a million dollars amonth after one viral video

Zach (10:54):
Consolidate all of that into one single rich and just accumulates and represents everything. Yep. What is this, which ad that we're going to go into? So we call it

Keith (11:08):

The, uh, everlasting ad and the Emerald method is, is, is the four pillars combining them. Um, and, andwhat it does is it gives you the ability to create what I call an everlasting ad one good ad, uh, that youcan run on any platform that, you know, you get one good script. Now you have a video, you can run onFacebook, Instagram, and YouTube, but, you know, get to put together some, some basic bannerretargeting. So when they, after they see your content, they don't buy, they're going to see youeverywhere on all the new sites. You know what what's Trump doing next. They're going to see your adon CNN, MSNBC, Fox news, or whatever, whatever channel, you know, you're checking out. So, so, sobasically we want to make it, so it will work on all these platforms. And then it goes back to those fourpillars.

Keith (11:52):

And what done is, is basically sort of also dug deep. And it's, it's really a three act structure to, to do this.And, and we have about 12 or 13 kind of core elements. I'm not going to go through all those right now.It's, it's, it's, I think it would kind of go down too much of a rabbit hole. Um, but essentially as a three-actstructure and we have, uh, well over 13 core elements and I call them add building blocks. And so we,we have all these scripts that we've now built out where you can see how some of these add buildingblocks, for example, in act one, we need to, yeah, that first five or 10 seconds, we need to make sure ifit's a video that we not only get their attention, but we can pull out that the avatar we're going after in anatural way, it's non.

Keith (12:46):

I don't know if I can say that, but, um, it's, it's, it's basically, um, you're what you're saying and kind ofcatches their attention. Uh, but if somebody is watching that, they know that if you're targeting businessowners that want to grow their business or somebody that wants to, uh, improve their life span or loseweight, they're going to know that by your, your opening, uh, opening ad. Right. And so then you, a lotof times we want to make sure and have that big promise in the first five or 10 seconds that, that, that,like, not necessarily digging into the big challenges and frustration always right away, but, but really, uh,what is the ultimate perfect scenario? And if we can show that in the opening, sometimes, especially ifwe can use it a lot of times we use a proof or credibility story.

Keith (13:34):

Um, and so for example, uh, I'll, I'll, if you want, I can read and I'll pull up one of these scripts and I canread it. I can read the opening of this, and this can be a video, or this can be a lot of times we tell peoplejust to test this as a long copy ad on Facebook, right? And then if, if you, if it works out, then you can go and you can make a video. Uh, it doesn't have to be highly produced. Uh, it could be an iPhone video.Um, but one of my, one of them that we've got running right now, it's working really well acrossplatforms is, you know, I say after 300 million in ad spend on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTubegenerating hundreds of millions of dollars in sales and over 100 industries, I'll tell you the number onereason why less than 3% of us consistently have success.

Keith (14:17):

So in that sense, I've basically, I call it a contextual call out. I've called out, I'm looking, I'm looking forbusinesses that want to grow. Um, but I also mentioned ad spend, you know, so they know, you know, ifthere's somebody that just, uh, looking to grow the productivity, they're there, they're going to hit skipad on, on YouTube, or they're going to ignore on Facebook. And that's totally fine because I'm onYouTube. We want them to skip ad if they're not in our avatar super important. Um, I've got the bigpromise in there, right? Um, basically generating a hundred millions of dollars, credibility authority, uh,300 million in ad spend and a hundred industries. And then I also have a curiosity hook. The number onereason why less than 3% of us consistently have success. So those are four. I literally have four of myelements all in the first five seconds.

Keith (15:05):

Um, and then, so I'll read the next two paragraphs in this one. Um, so I say my clients are breaking salesrecords, selling everything from online courses to music, to consulting, to physical products, to localservices, to real estate and everything in between. So now I've kind of really called out my avatarwithout saying attention, business owners or attention homeowners. Are you looking to grow, sell yourhouse? Are you looking to grow your business? That's lame. We don't want to do that. Um, you wouldn'tdo that. If you walked into a party, right? You wouldn't say attention homeowners. If you're a real estateagent, walk into a house full of homeowners, you, you know, you talk naturally. So, so then th the thirdparagraph on this one, I won't go any further is, and then I say, you know, my client's breaking salesrecords, yada yada, yada, like Ryan here who started a business selling a $67 digital product lastsummer, and is now doing over $1 million a month by running the same one Emerald method ad onFacebook, Instagram, and YouTube directly to his product sales page without any upsells.

Keith (16:10):

And then I show a screenshot of him saying, thanks. We did a million dollars last month, right. At thesame time, so that, um, and then I go in and, and, and that's, that's act one in that one. Um, and thensometimes we'll go in and we'll, we'll, we'll dig in and we'll give a little more proof or we'll go in and we'llshow we'll map out our process. Especially if it's on Facebook. It really works well, sometimes mappingout our unique mechanism or a unique method and, and giving them an outline of it maybe, but thenanother, but then more, uh, another reason for them to go watch a webinar, to get more, or check outour product page to have it, you know, to get it all done for you or something like that. So that's oneopening. And if you want, I'll give you one other sort of opening, so you can see how we, sometimes weslightly, uh, adjusted a little bit.

Keith (16:56):

Um, and this one, um, let's see. So this one, uh, very similar, but I open up in this case, one of myelements is proof story, right? And that's one of our, our core 12 up 12, 13 elements. And, uh, this one, Iopen up with the proof story. This is Esther. She uses one ad that runs in Facebook, Instagram, andYouTube to sell country music albums. And then it plays a clip of her, um, saying this has been a complete game changer in our business, a 100% game changer. And like, and then I'm on the call withher, right? She's, she's talking to me and then goes back to me. And I say, she's spending $500 a day andgenerates about a thousand dollars in music sales, every single day music that people can get on line forfree. She does this using unique ad method that I call the Emerald ad that you can learn more about.

Keith (17:53):

If you click the button, you see somewhere on this video or in this post, and I'll show you how it workslike Ryan here, yada yada. So that one is a slightly different. Um, but the thing is, is when you do thework and you go through the exercises and you, you start to really build out your proof stories, your bigpromise, your unique mechanism, your, uh, your unique process. You map out your, your core uniqueprocess. A lot of times people don't want to show that in their ad, um, on Facebook, a lot of times wedo, we give away more in many cases because the, the share-ability factor, the viral factor sends thatsignal to the algorithm that people like your ads, guess what happens? You know, this Facebook rewardsyou, they drive your costs. Yeah. So, and you also build more trust.

Keith (18:35):

So, you know, and sometimes we don't go all as much into the unique process on YouTube. Um, butsometimes we do it just kinda kinda depends. Uh, and then you go in and, and act two is really maybegoing into the unique process or digging a little bit more into the challenges without, um, or benefitswithout challenge, right. Benefits without frustration, uh, soft call to action. And then, uh, maybe go inand do a little bit more of proof story or, uh, your new, your unique mechanism or credibility, and thencall to action. And then maybe another couple, a couple other elements that we like to include, but itdoesn't have to be in our, you know, in every video of possible things like overcoming self-belief issues,you know, like it's not your fault. Uh, you're an expert, so it's easy for you, right. Or shoot this one on.

Keith (19:31):

But, um, you know, that self belief is a big one. Um, and, and so if they, if they think I can do this, then it,it really, uh, makes people want to take action, know, not everybody has the same thing. So when you'reselling a physical product, that's more of a commodity based item, like clothing or apparel. It's a littledifferent story. And those kinds of ads, what you're gonna do is you're gonna focus a little bit more onyour belief system and what your product, how your product makes people feel, right. Nike honors,great athletes. And, um, a lot of people have modeled that, and it works really well. It's a little bit moreof a longer-term approach, and it's a little more challenging, you know, if you sell physical products andyou sell supplements, or a lot of those types of things, it's a little easier, cause it still is a little bit moreproblem solution, and you can follow the similar method that I just gave. Um, but anyway, that's sort ofthe overview of, of the method, you know, act one is get their attention. Um, but do it in a way whereyou're, it's the call-out of the business is contextual. It's just part of your conversation. You know what Imean? Um, instead of just calling them out and, and then you go into some of these other elementsand, uh, it's, uh, I love how we just

Zach (20:48):
Broke down the whole rich ad campaign. And we didn't even talk about creative. We didn't talk about you know, manual or automated bids or CVS. Like, I, I, uh, I love how foundational

‍

Keith (21:02): Yeah, it's, it's so many people get so excited. And if you want to talk on that stuff, I can, we can talk allday long, right? We have a three-phase process basically for, for managing ads. Uh, you know, you wantto test and find out what best audiences, best creatives. And then as you, as you start to learn, we wantto start leveraging that algorithm and start really using things like campaign, budget optimization, andlarger audiences and bigger lookalikes and, and letting the algorithm kind of do its magic using only yourbest ads and your, and your best audiences and starting to get into some more of the, the, the advancedbidding. But we're not going to go into that because I see 98% of people out there. That's what they'refocusing on. And they're just trying to over-optimize crap, right. Ads that are, uh, maybe not crap.

Keith (21:46):

A lot of times their ads are actually average or above average. You know what I mean? Like you have adirect response copywriter. Who's writing an ad who thinks it's a really good ad because they've been acopywriter for 10 or 15 years, but they don't actually realize that the social media landscape is different.It's changed, you know, the way we communicate as changed, like I said, those kinds of attention,getters, they just don't work anymore. Like they used to. And I still see people doing it all the timebecause they don't know what they don't know. You have a good copywriter or guru out there who hasa super dialed in offer and funnel, or maybe has a really, really dialed in backend email followupsequence or high pressure sales system. And so they're using ads that are just average and they'repaying high cost per click, and they're still making a lot of money.

Keith (22:34):

And so you have all these other people that are out there, and they're seeing these gurus out there thatare running ads, thinking that that's the type of ad they should run, but really it's not the ad it's doingvery well. Those gurus out there could be getting cost per leads and cost per purchases. Probably half ofwhat they are. I bet you, um, because they're, they're, they're not following this, this kind of methodthat I'm talking about. And so, you know, the other thing too, is that a lot of people ask if you're going todo video, it shouldn't be short. Um, we, we've kind of seen the sweet spot being about three to sixminutes, definitely not men and a half. Like a lot of people will talk, talk about out there talking aboutYouTube ads and video ads. Uh, sometimes like our best ad right now, currently for our funnel is, is onFacebook as a minute and 51.

Keith (23:21):

Uh, Ooh. But on YouTube, that same ad is running in our four minute and 26 around there four minuteand 20 seconds is, is the best performer. Um, and on, on Facebook, that's actually outperforming aswell. Um, but for some reason on Facebook with this campaign, the minute and 51 is working bestbecause 80% of the impressions are coming from Instagram and it's doing well on Instagram for somereason right now. And so, uh, it's a lot of times I've got a client clients or a friend of mine now used to bea coaching client, and that they're booking about 28 to 30 appointments per day in a real estateinvestment space. And they're using a about a four and a half, almost five minute video ad. Um, uh,some are like 10 X cases, seven minute video at eight minute video ad. Sometimes, you know, it was aseven minute and it followed all this formula. And then, and then they kind of read it maybe a year laterand now they got it down to three or four minutes and it performs a little bit better too. Um, so it,sometimes you can do it all in under two minutes and it will be your best performer, but it doesn't haveto be that way. That's my point, especially when you kind of add that call to action, you know, you add asoft call to action in maybe 30 seconds or a minute. You know what I mean for the rest is gravy.

Keith Krance (24:37):

This episode is brought to you by funnel Nash's add card, the only charge card exclusively for your digitalad spend. And if you're an ad agency that manages seven or even eight figures a year in media and adspend for your clients, and you're looking to double your profits over the next six to 12 months, thencheck out, add card, see the typical agency model is this, you charge 10% of your spend. You make 10 to20% margin at the end of the day. So that's really one to 2% of your clients spend that is profit in yourbusiness. The easiest way to double that is a really find a way to earn in that one to 2% cash back of thecard that is on file of your clients has ad account. And before ad card we had to do was invoice all yourclients for their ad spend up front.

Keith Krance (25:25):

She's really difficult on a cash flow basis and very difficult ask. And then you had to put the card on yourown Amex or whatever card of choice to get that level of value back into your business with add card it'sentirely different in streamline. You simply get your clients on add card and make yourself the agency ofrecord, and you'll get the cash back. As long as you're managing the ad spend, it's a great way to doubleyour profit without doing any additional work, check it out@funneldash.com. So I wanna hear about apoor ad, man. I wanna know of all the, the hundreds of millions of campaigns that you've touched. Iwanna know what is it,

Keith (26:03):
So what's bombed.

Keith (26:10):

Okay. So good question. I would say, um, with our it's, you know, it's kind of weird is with our stuff, myown ads, our issue has always been our backend, like product development, not keeping up, you know,okay. We we're, we got an ad that's working really well, and then we have to stop it because I've got toredo a course because Facebook is outdated, right. Changing everything. And then I do that. And thenI'm like working on a webinar, uh, for, for lecture, you know, four or five months. And so for us, it's kindof, it's kind of weird. I think, I think we've always had this sounds kind of like, not even like somebodywould think this is like arrogant or something, but, but I can't actually remember an ad that I've actuallyput time in. Like, you know, like, cause we put a lot of time into writing one good ad, um, that actuallyhasn't knocked it out of the park right out of the gate and, and done really well.

Keith (27:06):

You know? And then you start to add some layers to that cause they, they will, sometimes they will slowdown, you know? So if you add different ads that will resonate with different types of people, it will helponce you get that foundational superstar ad running. But, um, I would say that for us though, the mosttimes we've seen for ads is when, uh, we didn't have, or a lot of clients situations, uh, where they didn'thave a cash flow funnel. They didn't have, uh, a system that was evergreen that was really able togenerate cashflow in that first 24 hours. That makes sense. So the pricing was off. Um, you know, a lot oftimes if I just look at customers and clients that have come in most, mostly we, we obviously we have torework the story and follow that, that method I talked about and, you know, get something goodrunning on the creative, but in general for us, if it's like, okay, I don't have a webinar ready.

Keith (28:04):

So I can't sell our, you know, a thousand dollars program and we've got only one upsell, so we can'tafford to keep running this. You know what I mean? Um, we're getting customers for $15, but we have to turn it off. And so, like I said, it's, for me, it's more than that, of an issue up until recently. Um, but ingeneral I would say the biggest problem I see is not having that cashflow generating, not having the rightprice point. So what people will do is they'll, they may be, you're targeting a, a mass appeal audience. Sothey're in a consumer, maybe it's a health and wellness. Maybe it's a hobby based, maybe it's aroundanxiety or something like that. And they're selling $150 product for 200 or maybe even a hundred it'stoo, too much in some cases. And so their price, point's a little bit too high, uh, or they're in cause causethat's different than a B2B, you know, for, for you and me, we're targeting people that want to growtheir business 100, $200, $300 upsell after a $7 product or after a lead magnet or after a, uh, even 49 or$99 front end product is totally fine.

Keith (29:11):

But, but if you're in a mass appeal, uh, you much better to have a lower price and a lot of volume, a lotof products than it is to have a, you know, a little higher price or people are trying to, to, to use like thislong email sequence, uh, or to sell a membership, which doesn't generate a lot of cashflow. Um,

Zach (29:32):

Because, and this is also a great segue into our next segment. We're really talking about cashflow andfinancial principles for is we talk about payback periods of 30 days, right? Most people that's kind oftheir rule of thumb because that's their, you know, they run payroll every 30 days. Uh, but you're saying24 hours, right. Which is even more specific and more aggressive. And why, why two part question, Iguess one why 24 hours and then two, what do you think about a lot of these challenger funnels thatare popping up where they're like week or two week long challenges over pretty much an email course.Yeah. And then they're having offers on the backend and they convert like crazy, you know, like lead tosale conversion is amazing. So

Keith (30:26):

A hundred percent great question. So the launch model is one of the things where I've had so manypeople that come in, they're like they're in a, they're in a big launch mastermind or something like that.And then they're just growing. They have to grow it organically. Right. Cause they can't run ads to alaunch unless there are two weeks, like basically two weeks out or less. And then even when they dothat, you're still running ads and not getting any revenue right. Until after the launch closes. And soyou've got to have some capital, so that's your model you need, uh, some capital like w like ad capital,right? Like, well, you guys have, um, um, but one of the things to get to help get around that is, is that ifsomebody is in the launch model that the traditional, like the PLF three, four video series, and they'redoing a live launch two times a year, uh, they're not, I'm not talking about the challenge launch yet.

Keith (31:14):

And I'll, I'll, I'll get on that in just a sec. But if they're in the launch model, uh, what I try to get them todo is to try to create an evergreen funnel that they can run between launches. So maybe they're sellinga, uh, basically a, just a digital version of that product that doesn't include the coaching and you'reselling it for a third to half the price, and you've got maybe a front end, low price, a $27 front end, or$709, something like that. So you've got a kind of an upsell funnel that's running all year round. Andthen when you get to your launch, uh, you have more customers and more leads and, and it still doesn'tcannibalize it. So that, that's, that's one thing that that's been a game changer. I've seen businesses,literally 10 X in one year by doing that, um, guys that there are people that are executing, you know, onthe challenge model.

Keith (31:56):

Here's, here's, it's the same thing. It's, it's like you, you have to build it up organically. If you're going torun ads, you need to have, uh, a lot of cash in the bank, or we're going to do that. We're going to do achallenge launch and we're going to try it. And, but my plan is basically just going to do it because wewant to kind of relaunch one of our front end courses. And then I'm just going to sell it using anevergreen webinar after that, because that's more of a cashflow model. Right. Because, um, but in themeantime we have this conundrum that you just mentioned, right? So a launch is a month away. So forme, if I'm going to do a challenge launch, I'm going to, I'm going to set up two upsells going into that. Soit's either going to be a free challenge and Hey, for $99,

Zach (32:40):

You can keep the recordings or for $49, you can take the recordings and then another upsell, maybe yougot a $99 up sell for a coaching call or for some other product, they'll say he's done a really good jobwith this, with GRU funnels, right? Because it's like you go to Gruffalo funnels.com, you get a freemiumsoftware account, but the upsell is the affiliate offer, right? Like, Hey, pay, you know, XYZ dollars tobecome an affiliate. And, uh, I think that that's really, um, I think it's really solid where you can still havethat solid, like, you know, free front end, uh, but some more tactical and, um, uh, cross sells that, uh,that may make all the sense in the world. So talk to me about cashflow. So 24 hours, I love stuff. That'slike paying back within 24 hours and it's actually, um, yes, cashflow is a big one.

Zach (33:38):

I also just like the efficiency of the capital, right? Because generally that requires you to be at a lowerprice point, you know, sub a hundred dollars to be ROI and within 24 hours. And not only do you getmore cycles, right? You talked about working on a webinar for five months before you're only going togo through, you know, one, maybe one, two, maybe four cycles of a webinar a month. And you, becauseyou gotta do a rerecord, you gotta do new slides. Like there's a ton of work that goes into optimizingthose and why I think it takes years for people to get them dialed in when you're at that low price, whenyou're 20 hours, I need to, it's a difference between $2,000, right? On a webinar, I got to go spend 2000to know if I'm making money or not. Yeah.

Zach (34:25):

Versus spending, let's say seven, $9 or $50 or a hundred dollars to know if the ads are working or not.Right now I have, I literally have 20 to 40, more at bats, right. To really make the thing work. And in afaster, tighter feedback loop that allows you to turn money faster, turn marketing budget over, faster onan annualized basis, but, um, more capital efficient in the process. So I'm like a hundred percent withyou here. But, um, uh, I'm curious to hear more of, um, more of, uh, more of your insight as to how yougot there. Yeah. So, so wait, say that last part one more time. Sorry. It's just the last 10, 15 seconds. Ijust want to hear, I want to hear more about, you know, how you kind of came to that resolve and alsohow you're helping some of your clients ensure that that's in place. Right. It's it's one of the things youhave to do is you have to kind of start manufacturing new offers, right? Like you have to start splittingoffers and that becomes difficult. That's easy to do when you're selling info. Let's be honest. Right. It'seasy to do when you're selling courses and like books and stuff, but it's more difficult to do in, in e-commerce. Yeah. Um, it's and, uh, yeah, because then you just start, just got to make sure that you'renot taking away from the core focus of the, uh, of the business.

Keith (36:02):

Totally. And so on the low, on the, on the pricing, you're, you're basically a hundred percent. I totallyagree. Uh, uh, it's tough because a lot of times, if someone comes to us, you'll have people out therethat are teaching, you have to sell high ticket, like, and then they're running the numbers the oppositeway, right? They're like, if you have a, you have this many people visiting you, you only need you to getone person to, to buy. Now you have $2,000, right. So, and they do the math and it's like, if you get oneconversion and they're set, they're buying a hundred dollars, it's a lot harder. But the challenge, butwhat they're not saying is that in order to do that, you have to get a lot of people to show up to awebinar and you didn't spend a lot of money.

Keith (36:41):

Like you said, it's a, it's a big risk if it's not already a proven offer and it's really risky. And so I've seenpeople all the time, like they're, they're sort of in the VR, in the fairly beginning stages and they tryrunning a live webinar funnel, and they're selling a thousand to $2,000 program. And they, you know,you could get a hundred people live, which is going to be like 400 people registered, and you might notget any sales, but the next a hundred people live, you might get two or three or four, if it's your firstone, you know, um, and you might give up on something that could have been so good, but you hadn'trefined it quite yet. So that's why I agree. It's a, it's a lot, sometimes less risky. And you can create thatmomentum when you can optimize on purchase.

Keith (37:23):

Anytime we can get to optimize on purchase. That's the goal. And I tell people this all the time, like theway the algorithm works is it, they, it's not just like if you optimize on purchase before you get anyimpressions that they're already narrowing your targeting down to people that have shown to buy stuffover the last 30 days or 45 days or 60 days, even in different industries. And so if we can optimize onpurchase, that's a game changer. So that's why for me, I would never do a challenge. We're going to do achallenge launch, but I would never do it without a self-liquidating funnel leading up to it. My goal is toget two to one on our ad spend before we even start the launch, before we start the first day of thechallenge, because we have, we're going to do a $5, $5 challenge and then a 49 and then a 99.

Keith (38:11):

And then actually for me, I'm going to have like a soft upsell where, Hey, if you, by the way, if you're, ifyou're somebody that you're actually looking to hire somebody, we've got a really amazing group. And ifyou want, you can, we have an audit process and that's another little upsell, and then that can be runfor six weeks leading out to your challenge. You know what I mean? Or if maybe three or four weeks.And, um, then you do your, your challenge and then you make an offer, say, we sell a thousand dollarprogram now. Uh, and then we deliver that program over five, six weeks, and then what I can do, what I,what I'm going to do for us at least, you know, we might say, Hey, let's do an evergreen challenge. But,um, it's, my plan is to go to an evergreen webinar because I've put a lot of time into building the webinaralready.

Keith (38:56):

Like I told you that who takes five, six months to build a fricking webinar by the way. Um, uh, but, butactually what came out of it was a really, really, really amazing webinar. Um, so that, that same basicwebinars, what we'll sell that program, evergreen, but, but for me, I'll have less risk in place, you know,because we already flushed it out. Right. We, we sold it through a challenge. We, we, we, we generatedlots of customers leading into that. Um, but, but if you're in like something else, if you sell on the digital product side, if you sell dance lessons or decluttering or anything like that, it's low ticket all the waybetter, be under a hundred dollars and potentially even under 50 for your front end, uh, and, and justget massive volume. And if you have more products and you're gonna make more money, uh, I alwaystell people if you're in a mass appeal, um, or even if you have physical products like that, more profitproducts equals more profit, not a membership, a membership, usually what I've seen, especially at themass, especially if that's just another thing you have, and it's not the core focus of your entire business.

Keith (40:01):

A general membership ends up being the opposite of the 80 20 principle, where you're spending 80% ofyour time on your membership and getting 20% of your revenue. That's if you're in the paid trafficworld, because it's stuffed in generate a new member on a cold lead. Right. And so, um, more, moreproducts and same thing goes, obviously, if you have a e-commerce and e-comm, we want, we want toreally try to find that best product, that core product that we can use to drive cold traffic into, um, inaddition to brand awareness and, you know, education based stuff. Um, but then we can use our otherproducts to, to, uh, uh, help improve that profit. And, you know, so yeah, so

Zach (40:44):

Keith, you're a legend man. This has been amazing. I feel like I just can mute now and you can just talkabout ads for the next couple hours. Just keep diving out to it. I, uh, I appreciate it, man. This has beenreally solid stuff. Tell everybody a little bit about, um, how we can support you, what you're up to nextand how

Keith (41:04):

Everybody can get in touch. Sure, sure. No problem. You know, I would say that, uh, I would go to, ifyou're, if you want, I would probably just go to one good ad.com uh, one good ad.com right now thatgoes to, um, to our other challenge. But by the time you're listening to this, it'll probably go into the,the, the, you know, the, the challenge, I just talked about either a free challenge or a $5 challenge. Um,the other thing was we have a presentation if you're somebody at a, at a higher level and you're lookingfor some coaching and, you know, you're, you're looking for some, um, maybe an agency to hire out.You could go to, I've got a presentation where I take people through our four steps to really scaling out,uh, and to really scaling out a business using multi-platform ads.

Keith (41:53):

And I would say it's an, you know, step one is the cashflow step two is the everlasting ad. Uh, step threeis being able to, to put that into all three, uh, the big three platforms, Facebook, Instagram, andYouTube, plus the Google display retargeting, and then step four is, is, is the, uh, maintaining andscaling, you know, testing, optimizing, troubleshooting, scaling, rinse, and repeat that presentation. Ican, I don't even know if I have, uh, I think I can make everlasting ad comm go to that one. I don't knowif I have a, uh, one good ad. I love this screenshots or here. Uh, this is just awesome. Yeah. Super cool,man. Well, thank you so much. You're you're, you're, you're an OJI of,

Keith Krance (42:43):
Oh, when it comes to Facebook ads, I love it. It's fun. We'll definitely have you back.

Speaker 6 (42:48):
I appreciate having me on

Keith Krance (42:54):

Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the rich ed or at podcasts. If you're like me and listento podcasts on the go, go ahead and subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and rich ed[inaudible] dot com slash podcast. And if you absolutely love the show, go ahead and leave a review anda comment share with a friend. If you do take a copy screenshot of it, email me zach@funneldash.com.Show me you left a review. I'll give you a free copy of the rich add or ed book to learn more about thebook. Go to rich ed for a.com to leave a review that a rich ed or at.com/review. Thanks again.