Speaker 1 (05:40):

And they're going to tell you how many people they're going to send it to. And hopefully your strategy works. That's kind of the director's job in that area. Um, they get, they used to get paid a lot of money for that too. Now there's been this huge shift with performance marketing, namely in the social media space. And whenever I got involved with it, the first thing that I saw when I got behind the Facebook and Instagram platform is that I could do exactly what I was doing with these digital banner vendors for a fraction of the cost that I was doing it for. So I was like, Oh man, I can do, I can basically create banner ads on Facebook and Instagram for like Unilever or Procter and gamble and take their budget and get 10 times the amount of reach impressions, and also see how much money I'm making off of it. And so whenever I started to explain this to people, they were just like, no way, no way, no way, but after three, four or five years it's finally caught on and people are figuring it out. And here we are today.

Speaker 2 (06:52):

Talk about a lifecycle and the home online marketing side of things. So with shopping Nova, I mean, y'all have had quite a jump in the past year. I mean, going from X amount of clients, I want to say to two X and back, can you kind of give some background on the badge just to kind of show how rapid the growth was for y'all as a whole?

Speaker 1 (07:10):

Yeah, so they started out, uh, Dan and Robbie or in Homer, Alaska, which is always leading away from everything else. Um, this started as commercial fishermen and they had some run-ins with a storm or whatever the Bisquick capsize their boat and put them all in a really bad spot. They kind of pick themselves up by the bootstraps and started a, uh, like a creative agency. They did videos, photography, stuff like that. Um, that was stuck that media. And I think over the, over about a year or two years, they transitioned from a creative agency to a media buying agency. That's kind of what sparked it. About two years ago, I came on, we had about 27 30 clients every single month on the roster, uh, relatively large budgets between $10,000 a month to $50,000 a month. Uh, some of them were spending almost a hundred K a month lately in 2020. We went from having about 27 to 30 active clients over a month to having about 80 to 90 active clients a month. And we've got five to 10 that are spending over a hundred thousand dollars a month every month. Um, super fast growth. Like I told you, we can't hire people fast enough these days, uh, especially with, you know, the talent pool that's out there. And it's just one of those things where it's a great place to be in online. E-commerce marketing right now.

Speaker 2 (08:52):

Yeah. I mean, I believe it well that growth, you know, come some killer ads. So, I mean, let's go ahead and take this bad boy into the rich ad segment. I've been seeing these ads for weeks, months, years. It seems like, um, kind of give everybody some background. You know, we have some short form, some long form, but it's very video oriented kind of ads here. And we'll have these in the show notes for some context here, but go ahead and got of dive into, you know, what made these ads rich, who they're hitting, you know, how they've been able to evolve over time, just kind of, you know, break it apart there

Speaker 1 (09:29):

With that one. What we're really trying to do is, uh, it's a retarget ad. It's a 10 day bucket head. So basically anybody that takes any kind of action on our top of funnel, uh, discovery ads, or going to get dropped into this 10 day bucket for 10 days. And they're going to see this ad or variations of it for 10 days, no frequency cap, which we get a lot of comments that are like men, I'm tired of this ad swollen up, but I don't care. It works completely works. Um, um, I'm of the I'm of the thinking that the higher the frequency, the more action takes place, even though people might not like it. So to speak, it makes them take action. Like whenever I see an ad over and over and over again, I started clicking on that thing just because it's like, I got to see what this is about.

Speaker 1 (10:20):

Um, so I'm in that kind of train of thought that are really like high-frequency and my retarget ads, especially. Uh, but this ad it's really more of a personal, uh, personal ad. It's a selfie video. Uh it's, it's Daniel one of our founders and he's basically explaining like, or results for our clients right now, the current climate of the industry right now, uh, what we're seeing across the board. And it's more, it's more or less like giving somebody a behind the scenes look of the type of revolt of results that we're actually creating for our clients and not just, Hey, we run ads for e-commerce brands. That's the discovery ad. This ad is more like getting back into the weeds. Uh, lately we just did a variation of it that it we're talking more about quarter four and you know, black Friday cyber Monday is coming up, got to get ready.

Speaker 1 (11:20):

2020 is going to be probably the biggest shopping event of the ever, um, quarter four because everybody's online right now, shopping. So obviously black Friday and cyber Monday are going to be bigger than ever because nobody's going to try to get in a store with a mask on with 5,000 other people. You know what I mean? They're going to do all their shopping online this year. Uh, so we're really hitting people with that messaging. It's, it's very, very purposed, uh, to try to get that personal messaging out. That's one of the things with our retarget ads is in our discovery ads for that matter, is there a messaging is very consistent at each level, uh, whether it's a discovery top of funnel ad, whether it's a 10 day, we targeted a 30 day, we targeted or a long-term 180 day retarget ad. Our messaging stays consistent no matter what, we just change up the variation on creative pretty much

Speaker 2 (12:22):

And something cool. I love about these two is the comments, you know, whether it's good or bad, it's good engagement, but I love how y'all kind of reply to the comments in here just straight, serious, you know, realistic replies. They don't look at canned responses. So, I mean, I think y'all's commentary and replies on this just helped change the momentum of the ad as a whole. So, I mean, I think that's killer what y'all are doing.

Speaker 1 (12:44):

Yeah. I'm responsible for all those comments.

Speaker 2 (12:48):

That sucks, man. I'll go ahead and say that

Speaker 1 (12:52):

Dude. I, so two times a day, first thing in the morning, and the last thing I do is go into our page and get all the comments from our Facebook ads and from her Instagram ads and our try. This is one of the things that I've taken from. One of the very few things that I've taken from Gary V, is to create that engagement, create that conversation by trying to reply to everybody no matter what. Um, the only thing that I will ever delete from a comment section is like a troll comment or a spam comment. Like if somebody is just calling us a bunch of, you know, expletives, or if somebody comes in with a link or spam, but nothing else oblique those, but for the most bored, anybody that comes at me trying to like, tell me how I should run this ad or tell me why this ad is bad.

Speaker 1 (13:47):

Or even if this ad is great, I reply to them. And I try to sport dialogue as much as I can to create that engagement on those ads. Because I mean, everybody's entitled to their own opinion. Don't get me wrong, but it's like, people will literally stop what they're doing throughout their day, just to tell somebody what they think they're doing wrong. And it's like, they have no idea how we're operating our company. They have no idea. Um, but I try to spark the dialogue for somebody else. That's going to open that comment section to see it. And what I try to do is I really try to enforce our we're legitimacy and our knowledge in those comments. And those replies try to let somebody know that reads through the comments section like these people know what they're talking about, that type of thing.

Speaker 2 (14:40):

What kind of ROI do y'all see on this type of ad here? Um, just based on, you know, percent actually convert who it shows to. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:49):

That one we're spending around hundred to 800 bucks a day on, like I said, it's only a 10 day buckets. So the audience isn't huge. So we can't really spend like a grand donor today or two grand on her today, like would do our discovery ads. Uh, but we're getting leads for about 200, 250 bucks a piece out of that ad. Um, a lead is a very, very qualified booked call that has come through an application process. It's been vetted with conditional logic to make sure that that client at least passes our baseline criteria to become a client. And then we actually have a two call process to vet clients even further after they've qualified for call. Um, so those 200, $250 leads. Usually we close about 10% of them. Uh, we're looking at a cost per acquisition of around 2,500 bucks to 3000 bucks and or lifetime value of a client because we're really good at what we do. And we retain clients really well is around 55, 60 grand

Speaker 2 (15:58):

Bringing the heat out. I fricking love that. Ah, well shoot, there y'all have it. That's that's a rich hat I've ever seen one and especially from an agency so much appreciated the goods, man, that was good.

Speaker 3 (16:11):

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Speaker 2 (17:28):

Check it out@funneldash.com. Well, let's go ahead and make this a little bit more rowdy and fun. And go ahead and check your email. I sent over the poor ad for our poor ad segment. Now I'm sure I'll get a ton of very bad dropshipper leads. So I thought it'd be fun to just show a very bad drop shipping ad. Now it's gotta be a trash page, maybe a burn and churn account, but go ahead, give me your first thoughts on that ad once you have a chance to kind of open it up.

Speaker 1 (18:05):

So the first thing, the first absolute thing that I noticed on this ad is the creative, the image on it, like makes no freaking sense whatsoever when somebody first sees it. Like I realized that this is based on the copy. It's for lighting it's for some type of led lights or neon lights or whatever. But when you first see the image, like it looks like a trap house. Exactly. And so it doesn't make a bit of sense when you first see it. Um, does that give somebody attention? I don't know. Maybe, uh, maybe the person that they're going after is a trap house. Maybe that's exactly what they want. I have no idea. That's why I say like, I don't know how they operate their company. I don't know what their ideal customer is, but whenever I've received this ad, the first thing I see is that trap house living room that makes no freaking sense whatsoever to me.

Speaker 2 (19:11):

And you got to love the copy being the icing on the cake of how complex this sounds. It looks like somebody they copy and paste the subject. Molly Baba.

Speaker 1 (19:21):

Yeah. With the copy. Like, like I said, after you see the copy and you see the led strip lights, it's like, okay, this kind of makes sense now. But then it goes into like, like crap music, same Bluetooth, Bluetooth control, adjustable brightness. Okay. Those are obviously features of these lights. But if you were me, I would be talking about like the music sinking thing in a specific, like it's got its own paragraph. The Bluetooth control has its own paragraph. The adjustable brightness has its own paragraph. Like people that don't understand how those lights are operated, you know, you can really spend a good story. Like, you know, just what brightness, for instance, if you've got a party going on and you want some different lighting, if you want some green, he wants some pink. You want some purple, whatever. If you want to get somebody in the mood, dance, the adjustable brightness feature, yada yada yada yada, right? Like just listing off these features and then talking about kitchen, TV party with absolutely no context whatsoever. Again, it's almost like they're catering to somebody that already has neon lights in their house and wants more or something like, and this is one of the 10 beta testers per day. What the hell? That means,

Speaker 2 (20:54):

Oh, I love the requirements. You need to have an Amazon account and you have to have a PayPal and do not share this deal in any Facebook group. Like this,

Speaker 1 (21:05):

It's a Facebook app. It's a Facebook app. How are you going to tell people you can't show them. You can't share something on the platform that we're advertising on,

Speaker 2 (21:14):

Man. I don't know about you, but I'm, I'm, I'm converting. I'm converting right now. No.

Speaker 1 (21:20):

So I can't really see the, I can't see any headliner or a call to action button. It says, please message us interested. Is there at least a call to action button on there for a minute chat dialogue or something? Exactly.

Speaker 2 (21:33):

Yeah. It was a sin message headline. Um, once in many chat, which linked to an Amazon account, which is, it seemed pretty scammy, but yeah, it's just, this is definition of a really bad ad that somebody put money behind. But what I love is hopefully they hear this because you gave some very good insights of how you can make this an actually good ad. So we love that

Speaker 1 (21:56):

Being in pasting the item name is stupid. I don't know why they did that. They absolutely copied and pasted that from Amazon 100% dead. And like they, they killed every bit of potential. This ad had by doing that, when you could form more of like a story around the led lighting and how it can be used in a party, how it can sync up with your music and your Bluetooth control and her phone, you can create an ultimate vibe with a color scheme. Like they missed a huge opportunity by just copying and pasting.

Speaker 2 (22:38):

I think I would take this and just have the simple copy. Let let's get lit, you know, absolutely some basic stuff. Well, my gosh, y'all, that's a, another terrible ad in our poor ad segment here. So to add the icing on the cake, let's go ahead and get some kind of financial tips, you know, take a page out of that. Rich dad, poor dad book. Um, I know y'all are doing a ton of scaling over there. So I mean, what kind of financial tips would you have possibly scaling up, you know, coming up with a budget, what would you love to kind of dive into on the kind of financial tip side?

Speaker 1 (23:11):

So first of all, the first thing that somebody has to do when they're, when they're looking at scaling is they have to know the numbers they have to, they have to know what the margin is. They have to know what their average order value is. They have to know what our cost per acquisition is getting somebody to make a purchase. Because once you know those three things, then you can say exactly how much money you are making per order that is being generated. And once you understand numbers, then it's a very, very easy decision to spend more money or to kill something, maybe re maybe launch a new, uh, item or a new collection. See what happens. I don't know, whatever the case may be. Next steps are very easy. Once you know the numbers in your business. Uh, for instance, we tell somebody all the time, lifetime value is something that a lot of people don't know in their business. They don't know how much money somebody spends on average with their company. Not the first time they buy something, but over the lifetime of being a customer and a really good example that I use for this as Walmart with Walmart, we can spend as much money as we want to to get something into the cart and add a checkout aisle because the average shopper at Walmart will spend anywhere between 25,000 and $50,000 in their lifetime at Walmart.

Speaker 1 (24:52):

Think about that. If your person is spending 25,000 to $50,000 in their lifetime at your store, what are you worried about running a hundred dollars for ads for, you know what I mean? Like it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Speaker 2 (25:10):

And are, y'all always looking at LTV perspectives at shopping Nova, or is there, are there one-off scenarios? Is it mostly when you're kind of shaping out these ES or predictions or projections, or there are pretty LTV related

Speaker 1 (25:23):

For us? Like we really try to, we, we try to consult on the backend. Um, like if it's, if it's a Shopify, if it's a route commerce, or if it's common sold, we try to get into their backend and kind of show them what these numbers look like as far as their store goes. Um, and then we show them what the Facebook numbers look like, because you can really see like lifetime value and average order volume and all that good stuff on the store backend. But then you can see what the actual ads return on is inside of the Facebook platform or another tracking software that you're using. Um, but at the end of the day, we talked about like different levels of traffic. So you have top of funnel, middle of funnel, bottom of the funnel. So on and so forth, a lot of people get hung up in this mindset that they have to get like a 10 X return on their ads right away.

Speaker 1 (26:21):

So like the top of funnel, if it's two X, three X, maybe even four X, these people are saying this isn't making me enough money because my margin is this. My cost is that my labor over here is that my overall overhead is this for item. I need to be making a 10 X return on every single order that I get through Facebook for it to be profitable. That is false a hundred percent false because we are also marketing to these people that have bought for the first time. They will get ads over and over and over again for new items. Over 30 days, over 180 days, six months, we are looking for these people to come back and purchase things over and over and over again, every other paycheck, if possible. Um, they're marketing to people that went inside of the store, shoved around and didn't buy a thing.

Speaker 1 (27:24):

And we are continuing to bring these people back to the store for not for new items, for sale items, for promotional items, for cross sells for upsells, all that good stuff, what we are doing with this multilevel strategy, as we are increasing the lifetime value of somebody that we are getting on Facebook and Instagram to buy from you over and over and over again. So when we S when we show people like your overall return on Aspen is seven X, because our bottom of funnel is a 12 X return in our top of funnel is a one to two X return. That does not mean that we take money out of our top of funnel, because we have to get people to the bottom of the funnel, right? Like it's, it's about understanding the numbers. It's about understanding lifetime value, average order value, and then throwing your overhead in there. If you don't know those numbers in your business, you will never be able to scale ever

Speaker 2 (28:27):

And straight fire there. Now, when it comes to how y'all are kind of scaling, you know, stuff that's already working for y'all's clients' accounts are y'all coming up with a new product lines. Collections, are you just doubling budgets? Are you creating new campaigns? I know there's, I, there are probably three or four ways. I scale both. What are y'all seeing kind of work the best these days? Cause I mean, I love is Dublin budgets, to be honest. I mean, I'm more of a simplified campaign approach, guy, dynamic creative. Our top of funnel is very simplified, very structured where the kind of retargeting is a lot more granular, kind of like you mentioned 10 day, 14 day 30 day, where it's kind of more of a customer journey alone on the bottom of the funnel side. So, I mean, when it comes to scaling up those colder audiences, what are, y'all seeing kind of work the best for, you know, y'all these days.

Speaker 1 (29:14):

So first of all, testing hyper testing, especially like everybody hated the campaign budget optimization that Facebook came out with when it first came out, but it honestly helped things. And for the record, every single update that Facebook comes out with is usually beta tested and tested over and over again, to make sure that it works. And it actually makes the platform better. Campaign budget optimization makes testing so much easier than it used to so much easier. Um, you can throw 10 audiences, 10 ad sets, and two to three pieces of creative per ad set. And Facebook will optimize it as best as possible. If I usually don't put any more than three ad sets in a campaign and I don't put any more than three pieces of creative in each ad set. Now that being said, when a client wants to let's say, test a new product or new collection that they're coming out with, there's a very qualitative way of doing it, that we have found is awesome.

Speaker 1 (30:26):

And it's really based on the decision, the decision is, is your top of funnel currently killing it? Or is it like, could be better? You know what I mean? That's the, could it be better or is it just absolutely murdering it with a five to seven X return on ad spend? And you don't want to touch that thing because what's going to happen. As soon as you inject an ad set or an ad creative into another ad set inside of that campaign, it's going to start shifting the money around to test things out. It's going to throw off your optimization a little bit. It might reset you back a little bit. If you do not want to touch that thing at all. The best thing that I have found is create an official AB test campaign that duplicates, that campaign duplicate the ad set. You can put new piece of creative inside of the ad sets that have been duplicated.

Speaker 1 (31:24):

And again, make sure it's an official agent. The test when you saw, when there's, what gives you that option slugged, it hit that switch for an AB test. Facebook will actually continue the optimization of the other ad that you don't want to touch, and it will start throwing some budget at testing that new stuff that you want to test and efficiently give you a good side-by-side comparison. Now Facebook's reporting of it is not that great, but if you're good marketer, you should be able to look at that on a daily basis and compare and contrast. Now, the other side of things, if your ad could be better, like it's not just absolutely murdering it. Then what I do is I like to the new test, I turned off the worst performing thing. That's in the adverts, the creative wise, the worst performer off and inject the new one in. And what Facebook will do is kind of allocate some budget to it. And it will kind of test it against the top performer. The only problem with this method is that Facebook will not give you the budget that you truly need to test. So if you truly need to test like budget and money against this AB testing is really the way to go. In my opinion,

Speaker 2 (32:43):

Man, that's, that's killer there and that's a feature a lot people use sometimes and don't use to where it's been around for so long, but the only issue I've ever had it, that is, I feel like the split tests, you always have one that just kills it. And whenever you try and separate it into its own campaign and it never performed as well as it did in a split test sometimes, but it's just it's hit or miss. But I mean, that's the key point of testing these days to where you really have to test to kind of gauge what works best for you. Because as I mentioned, there are like four to five ways I can scale to where it's never a one size fits all with these accounts these days.

Speaker 1 (33:15):

And I mean, the main thing is like, if you can, even if you're a macro results on what you want it to be your return on ad, spend your CPA, isn't what it w what you want it to be on that split test. Look at the micro stuff. Look at the cost per click, look at the CPM, look at the, uh, reach like that kind of stuff. Because if you're getting a lot of like, CPM is really low, which means you're getting a lot of impressions for your money, then it might be something that you test inside a completely different audience. Maybe you have your purchase look like going on. Okay. Let's try to test it with your initiate checkout, look like audience, or let's try to test it out with your, uh, targeted, you know, uh, what I call avatar's audiences, where you're actually going for the interest targeting type of thing. Um, you know, if you're a Microsoft statistics are looking really good, try to throw it into another audience that isn't competing with the split test. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (34:22):

Yeah, no, what I mean, it goes to show, I mean, there are definitely some key takeaways. People can kind of take an implement of some ads without a doubt, but man

Speaker 1 (34:33):

[inaudible] model is the thing it's not, it's not a one size fits all model is the thing. A lot of people will come up to us and you know, they'll say, okay, like you guys know exactly what to do. And it's like, yeah, we know what to do based on experience, which means we have like five different options over here that we could do and one's going to work. We just have to figure out which one it is. You know what I mean? Oh yeah. There's this one. There's like this secret methodology formula that somebody knows that like works every single time and that's not the case. That's why you hire a really good media buyer.

Speaker 2 (35:09):

Oh yeah. I mean, if I could replicate results one after another, I'd be on a yacht over in Bali right now or something. But my gosh, man, this was jam packed of value, you know? So how can people kind of get in touch with y'all website Facebook, what's the best way to kind of, you know, for people to get in touch or shopping over there?

Speaker 1 (35:26):

So, best thing to do is to go to a shop, a nova-and-me.com, shopping Nova and me.com with dashes in there. Uh, we have shopping over.com, which is our hero website. That's got more information about us. It's not very, uh, I would say salesy. Um, so you can go in there as well as shopping over.com uh, shopping over aimee.com is kind of our flagship funnel landing page. That's, it's a one-sheeter that gives you all of our information and case studies, that type of stuff. Um, so just depends on what everybody wants to do. Uh, we, on our website, we also have the e-comm grocery show. If you want to tune into that, that's really a really good way to see what we're all about or YouTube channel shopping Nova on YouTube, check that out. We got tons of case studies, uh, and basically just shooting the on what we do. So paleo, everybody has got love that, you know, in this D to C

Speaker 3 (36:35):

World, we all got to stick together. So I mean, you know, check out

Speaker 1 (36:38):

Them channels, subscribe. What's her name? That was an absolute blast, man. Thanks for coming on. Absolutely. Thank you guys for having me. Y'all have a good one. You too, man.

Speaker 3 (36:54):

Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the rich, add more at podcasts. If you're like me and listen to podcasts on the go, go ahead and subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and rich poor [inaudible] dot com slash podcast. And if you absolutely love the show, go ahead and leave a review and a comment share with a friend. If you do take a copy screenshot of it, email me zach@funneldash.com. Show me you left a review. I'll give you a free copy of the rich add or ed book. Learn more about the book. Go to rich ed for a.com to leave a review that a rich ed or at.com/review. Thanks again.