Speaker 1 (07:56):

Um, I mean, so Eric, you know, a thing or two about operationalizing marketing, right. And the timing of this, this is what's so magical, right? Like in a matter of weeks you have a really large brand taking massive action. Right. So like, walk us through, I mean, w w with hockey guys, you guys deal with this all the time, right? Like what does it actually take to operate racialized, something like that, to see a trend, the hop on it, to execute it on and put enough juice behind it, to where it has a meaningful impact?

Speaker 2 (08:24):

Well, no, I think it's trust in their social team. Cause that's who put it out was their social team. And like someone somewhere put a process in place at land Rover that allowed for a little bit of autonomy, because there was no way that ran through legal and that ran through everything. Like there's no way that they took time on that. Someone just ran with that, for sure. And so they built a process that they could trust their people in a lot of ways.

Speaker 1 (08:47):

That's awesome. I thought it was actually like a full blown ad campaign, but you're saying this was like a social post

Speaker 2 (08:51):

Social posts. They then boosted like, wow, got it. Make or break it.

Speaker 1 (08:59):

That is so cool. I mean, Ryan's view of like the, the, the, the, uh, the Peloton, um, it just totally tanked and, um,

Speaker 2 (09:09):

All right. It was so unfair, like that turned into, like, that was like one of the first witch hunts of the year where it's like, I get that it was a weird commercial, but like, it didn't how they, people took. It went so beyond how bizarre it was. Like, it was a little bit of a weird commercial. It wasn't that bad. Like it was bad. Don't get me wrong. It was a bad commercial, but the fact that it became headline news was ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (09:31):

Yeah. But like, uh, what, what was, uh, what was the, uh, was it like a vodka company that like spun up the aviation gin? Okay. Well, that's Ryan Reynolds. Okay. Yeah. Well, Ryan, yeah. Uh, I mean, just one of the best comedians and creative it's like ever, but I'm just saying like the fact that they were able to respond like so quickly, um, and get so much juice off of that.

Speaker 2 (09:55):

They just sold the company. He just made a boatload of money too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:00):

But I mean, like, that's a Testament of like one of these campaigns, you know, over a 12 month period as that kind of staying power, you know, can lead to some pretty amazing exits in a relatively short amount of time. Right. Like who the heck was aviation before Ryan started like coming up with all that crazy creative. Oh, really? Okay. Go for it.

Speaker 2 (10:24):

But yeah. No. Oh, no, he did not. He actually tried it and loved it. And that's how, yeah. His agents are friends. I was hearing the whole story.

Speaker 1 (10:31):

Got it, got it. Got it. Okay. I love it. Okay. This episode is brought to you by funnel Nash's add card, the only charge card exclusively for your digital ad spend. And if you're an ad agency that manages seven or even eight figures a year in media and ad spend for your clients, and you're looking to double your profits over the next six to 12 months, then check out, add card, see the typical agency model is this. You charge 10% of your spend. You make 10 to 20% margin at the end of the day. So that's really one to 2% of your clients spend that is profit in your business. The easiest way to double that is a really find a way to earn in that one to 2% cash back of the card that is on file of your clients as ad account. And before add card we had to do was invoice all your clients for their ad spend up front, which was really difficult on a cash flow basis and very difficult ask. And then you had to put the card on your own Amex or whatever card of choice to get that level of value back into your business. With add cart, it's entirely different in streamlined. You simply get your clients on add card and make yourself the agency of record, and you'll get the cash back. As long as you're managing the ad spend, it's a great way to double your profit without doing any additional work. Check it out@funneldash.com. Uh, let's let's into support as

Speaker 6 (11:58):

You're aware. Were you fine?

Speaker 1 (12:01):

You know, I find these all over the web. Sometimes Reddit, sometimes Facebook groups, but this one is really stood out to me. You know, it was really a thumb stopping from just how terrible it was. Um, I don't even know it's a beauty place in Concord, but they're breaking a lot of rules, 20% text rules, a lot of great deals and offers on this app. Great ad personally, I'm I'm ready to buy human hair or not, but I'm here to buy. It's a hundred percent at least, you know, it's not that 95% stuff happening. Well, I was trying to figure out like, why is a hundred percent human hair cheaper than whatever a wig is? Oh man, you're getting deep in this. I didn't even catch that. Hey, you know, I read this now the big thing I would say, like, from just getting real with, this is the first thing you're going to notice here is if there's a grand reopening, so something closed and it's reopening and that's the main point of this, which yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (12:57):

And I, I, by the way, w let's take the, like, who posted it out. If I was just reading this banner, I have no idea what the company is. Is it album Roe, right? Yeah. It's sun or is it, Oh, it's in Concord. It's just a really bad use of, there was no like design elements of like, what is the headline? Like people here, like, don't understand what the headline is, but I mean, you can even go further. I mean, this is a classic mistake, right? Like, what is the offer? These guys have like four offers all crammed in offer. It's like with human hair, branding air, I mean, you know, there's plus some other bonuses in there, which I don't, again, I don't know. I guess our beauty is a buy. So if cost makes sense, but why an anklet earrings? I know it's a foundational, like marketing principle, right?

Speaker 1 (13:46):

Like just focus on one, offer one headline. And, uh, there were just like, well, we're not confident in the first one, the second one or the third one, Hey, maybe they wait one 20 bucks an offer. Like, I mean, wigs starting at five 99. That's not an offer. You just told me your price, what wig I don't need. And by the way, there's no images of any of the products. So I, again, grand reopening is the main point. That is from a design standpoint that is here. And if you're grand Rio, then not assuming, I guess their own to show this to people that know them, we're back, which is cool. Like great. Totally. And now you don't need to tell me that your wigs start at five 99. Cause apparently I already know you. If I don't know you, then I don't give a that it's your grand reopening and you don't like, what I would have done on the creative is I would have gone more geo, right? Like if it's in Concord grand opening, I wouldn't have like a picture of the store. Like something like that to like grab the eye of somebody that lives in Concord. Right. And it's like, Oh, okay. I'm going to like drive over to this spot. Um, I don't need to know. So we'll have prizes. It's like overkill. I mean, 50 cents for braiding hair

Speaker 5 (14:52):

Though. I mean, it's kind of a good deal though. Brilliant. Hey, you know, talk about it.

Speaker 1 (15:00):

One braid is 50 cents. That's what I mean, you really got to dive into this and if I'm this 20 bucks, now I'm not getting 40 braids to get my $20 to spin the wheel to get my free web cost. Is that how this is working? You can get so many, is that talk to them and just say, Hey look, the point of an ad is to drive the click. Like we shouldn't even be having

Speaker 5 (15:15):

These conversations, right. If you're looking at an ad

Speaker 1 (15:18):

And we're having these level of conversations, like you're doing understand it, I want to know who Alba Marley is or what album are we is? Cause it sounds like I'm left out of a club and I want the special discount, but might not have had to get this special discount. Cause I don't, I'm not part of this secret club because I'm descent. That's all I'm saying,

Speaker 5 (15:35):

Oh man, this is how to build an ad on PowerPoint. One-on-one here.

Speaker 1 (15:39):

That's so good. That's so good. I think this one, I love it. Hold on PowerPoint. They use some great word art, but like, I don't know that I could recreate this in PowerPoint. It'd be difficult. It takes some time. That's the thing. If someone absolutely spent some real time on this because they pulled different colors, they've got the Halloween grand reopening along with like the red and like they really thought someone did spend real thought on that. So that's our hope. It's not someone in marketing, but someone probably that frankly couldn't afford to, or kind of grab someone else or didn't have someone, they knew that how to do this. And they're like, I'm just going to do it. Which power to them. I actually liked the initiative.

Speaker 5 (16:20):

The click-through rate would just probably be, I would imagine decent with like, what is this? Let me click on it and see what happens. You know? So, I mean, who knows

Speaker 1 (16:29):

That pattern interrupt, it's almost jarring. Like I guess because now I'm gonna have to figure out what the this is album our way. Let's see what this is. It's a global specialty chemicals company. Now I'm concerned

Speaker 5 (16:47):

This women hair is not 100% at

Speaker 1 (16:49):

All. Yeah. So if you're a chemical customer, you that if you're buying lithium or bromine, you, you can, uh, get a discount on your wig. I don't know. Oh my gosh. Okay. That was fun. Thank you, Eric, for entertaining us. This was honestly one of my favorite rows. Um, that's awesome. People actually spent time with this. We never even addressed at all the other point. Uh, let's do this together. Like just throw this up there. Like they really, like, there are many powers in there. There's a lot of there's a lot going on. Oh my gosh. Well, moving on as fun as that was, uh, you know, the show is all about bridging finance and marketing and uh, what I'd love to hear from you, Eric or some of the financial principles of how does Hawk help their clients, you know, in this area, uh, we've talked with agencies that are like, Hey, that's not my problem. Like, you know, let, let my clients like worry about their cash flows, how they're funding acquisition, how they're funding growth, you know? But you and I have had pretty, pretty extensive conversations around like where you want to go with Hawk and the future of hock financial and like, you know, how do you see the future's role of, of ad agencies and their involvement in helping their clients like fund growth?

Speaker 2 (18:17):

Yeah. So I'm going to start with that asterix that like, I think 99% of that ad agencies don't help their clients. And so let's just take them off the table. So I don't think like the future of agency, I think is the same as it is now, because I think it's mostly, uninnovative like, or we run businesses, but the ones that are doing really good work that are going to come ahead. I think I have. And we'll think about the whole business of their client, not just the CAC that they're getting on Facebook. Meaning if you even look at the big guys, WP, Omnicom, et cetera, they've been in the business of financing, their clients for ever like they're, they're, they're providing net terms on ad spend. They're doing things like that. So it's one way. But the problem is if you're don't have an 8 million, eight, sorry, $8 billion balance sheet or something ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (19:06):

You can't really afford to do that because if you're a smaller mid-sized agency, let's say you sign Nike and they want you to spend $20 million in ad spend for them. But they want to pay you on net one 20, which this happens to agencies they'll do it. And then one 20 days will pass and Nike will decide to pay it monthly. This isn't literal. I don't know that Nike has ever paid late, but I know many big brands do. And so the company goes bankrupt because now they can't stay above water. They fronted more money than they could ever afford. We were doing a lot of M and a in agencies. And we see this happen with agencies coming to us all the time. We had one, they ha they did, uh, they were doing about a million a month in revenue and we're 20 million in debt on clients spent and couldn't get it paid.

Speaker 1 (19:50):

So what, so let's break this down for a second because there's, there's two schools of thought, you know, an agency realm, which is I'm going to bill my, or maybe, well, there's more than two. I'm already thinking of like a handful, but like, let's just say there's bill my client upfront so that I'm not ending up in that situation, which is not great for the client because they get like negative float. Then there's, I'm going to front that the spend. And then I'm going to bill my client, which is what you just talked about. And then there's like, I don't want to touch it, put my client's card on file. You know, that's, that's, that's their role. So let's talk about the middle because I think the minute that that mail use case of the agency fronting the spend, I think is really a much more common at the mid market enterprise level agencies dealing with bigger budgets, which is surprising because that's like an insane amount of risk that you're taking. So w w why is that happening at the mid-market? And, and it helps shed some light there for some of the smaller agencies that haven't quite experienced this problem. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:51):

Just every big company has been around a long time. Like right now interest rates are zero. So keeping cash is actually kind of stupid. Like there's no reason to be just sitting on cash. It's basically based on inflation, you're just losing money, but still agent there, you know, policy-wise big companies are taught, keep as much cash as possible because when you're talking, let's say interest rates were where they were in the past and you're at like 5% to DVC numbers. And you're talking about a $10 million ad spend, well, that's what does that $50,000 a year. So you're still talking about four grand a month in income. I can make on that just by not giving it to you. And that's 10 million bucks. Budgets get a lot bigger than that, but let's just talk about $10 million. I'm going to make four grand a month, not giving it to you and letting you spend it. So if I have, if I delay four months and you go spend it, I just made 16,000 bucks,

Speaker 1 (21:39):

Uh,

Speaker 2 (21:40):

In terms of interest, payments alone, another one on the working capital benefits of that, where I can actually use it for other things while I don't pay you. So for big companies, when you're talking about scale, it's meaningful. If you're spending

Speaker 1 (21:52):

10 grand, well,

Speaker 2 (21:54):

The 50 bucks, I'm going to make a month, not giving it to you and it. Like that's, that's again, when we're at 5% interest. So like not, not as big of a deal know again, 40, but $41.

Speaker 1 (22:05):

So, and this is rampant in, in, in, in TV and like radio, right? Like

Speaker 2 (22:10):

It was just a common practice in TV and radio and old school marketing, because you're talking about really big budgets. And, and they, you know, at some point someone asked for net terms and it went 30 days and 60 days and 90 days. And also, you know, agencies get put in a rock and a hard place for the, you know, if you know, you're dealing with, again, I'm just using Nike as the example, because they're big and they spend a lot on marketing, but if they tell you, you know what, we're going to either pay you 90 days after you spend it, or we're going to find another agency, someone's desperate enough to take that money. Now, do I think it's the best move for Nike to put their agency in a risky place? No, but usually CFOs are making that decision. Not CMS.

Speaker 1 (22:46):

Yeah. What, what level of scale do you see this happening with, with some of the conversations you're having at Hawk? Like where, cause this is not happening, like in the world of e-comm right? Cause like the brand wants to own the ad account. They're like throwing up their card, you know, their card on file. They're, they're working out their own terms. Um, but like at what level of scale do you see this pop up? Uh,

Speaker 2 (23:12):

It's not really scale. I mean, it's, it's definitely mid, you know, mid five figure spends at least. So like, no, one's going to ask you to front five grand and pay you in net terms when they do like their company, like run, but mid, mid five figures, you start usually again, it's not really necessarily a scale, always a scale thing. We have fortune one hundreds of pay us on time and ahead of time. And don't ask for this , it's literally individual culture and policy. A lot of like foundations and things that we work with that like are a little more old school in the way they operate or ones that ask. So we have a, uh, yeah, a few of our clients that are like old school like that and the way we've worked around it, cause we won't do that. We're not going to get into net terms is we basically say fine, we can kick off a month late. And then you get your net terms and you're going to have to, but you're not going to start spending money until you've already paid for it.

Speaker 1 (24:02):

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I love it. I mean, this is, I mean, I'm going to do, I've been doing all kinds of, uh, live native advertisers for ad card here. Like this was one of the use cases for, for ad card was, uh, is to be able for a agency to be able to send their client, like to add card the client, to be able to put their funding source on, on file in the agency's ad account so that the agency is not taking the credit risk or the default risk in the middle, but the agency still gets to participate in the cashback and the interchange on the upside. Right. So there's like, there's a little bit of juice, um, there in terms of like wanting to squeeze out and honestly I've seen agencies. Yeah. I've seen agencies literally double, double their profit just off of figuring out how they can earn one to 2% cash back on their clients. Is that a credit risk?

Speaker 2 (25:00):

Great for ad spend if that's the case, but it's still Oh, double the profit. Yeah. That's actually very fair. Like they could, I could see that if you're an ad agency, you charge, let's say an average 10% manage ads, your EBIT does 20%. Right. That's 2% of ad spend. If you add another 2% of ad spending cash back, you just doubled your profits.

Speaker 1 (25:19):

Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I think that's fair. Uh, I love it. So, so, so what's the, what's the, what's the takeaway here? Right? So there's a takeaway for agency, which is like, don't do this, but like what's the takeaway for the brand, like do this or like bring it up.

Speaker 2 (25:38):

So the takeaway for me was working capital with a brand. The other piece is a lot of times it's in almost all the time. The payback period for a good marketing campaign is depending on the product can be a month, two months, three months that you actually make the money back and the returns back. So again, from a working capital standpoint, sometimes you're putting out money that you don't see the returns on for months. So if you can find ways to build a cashflow management around it, which again can be credit, can be, debt can be a, there's a lot of different ways to do that. But one of which is exactly what you guys do at FunnelDash like that, that is super helpful on the working capital side. That's why we've been interested in it is because it's not really about like, I don't have money to scale my business.

Speaker 2 (26:17):

So I'm going to take out debt it's that money. I know that my ads are working, but you know, every time I scale, I have to wait three months for it to scale for that returns to scale. So I'm just going to take out some form of debt to accelerate that so that I can scale faster than my working capital allows the same way people factor invoices, the same way people, you know, finance, they're a supply chain. It's the same thing with advertising. Like from the time you order and have to pay a manufacturer for your, to the time you get to sell, it is usually some period of time. So getting financing around that period really can help a business scale appropriately. Same thing with advertising.

Speaker 1 (26:53):

Yeah. Yeah. And I think the agency really takeaway here is, is twofold that if your client's really pushing you to, for you to take terms on their media, that that should be a massive red flag. Like yes, you can offer net 30 terms on your services, but I would not put yourself in a position where you're fronting the ad spend and offering net 90, 120. I don't care how large the client is. I would never do that. I would, I would force the client to really like, we're not forced the client like, and just say, Hey, go figure this out. But the, the right agency partner should bring that to the table. And I think that's what you're on to Eric with Hawk is like, this is a real problem, solve that, but put the credit exposure and the risk on the client and that really the, the agency, um, I think the opportunity for them is probably making some margin on facilitating that, that process, but then also facilitating, um, you know, at the car transaction level of like, it doesn't matter, like who's funding it, like what card it goes on and, and earning some of that cash back at the card level is, uh, is a pretty like small knob to turn, to, to double your, to double your profit.

Speaker 1 (28:09):

Um, so th this was Epic. I think that's phenomenal advice, Eric, and I appreciate you having that perspective of, you know, what you're seeing crumble a lot of agencies and maybe if you've done this and you're an ad agency and you're suffering from cashflow, uh, talk to Eric at hock media who will buy your agency and solve this problem for you. I do do that sometimes. Exactly. So wrapping the show up, Eric, let's get, give us the pitch on how people can get in touch. What are you up to next, um, and, and feel free to offer a blatant pitch that you know, that you're looking to acquire agencies.

Speaker 2 (28:52):

Yeah, no, on the agency side. Yeah. I'm always happy to talk. If agencies are looking like agency founders looking to scale a lot faster than they can do on their own, we've got a massive sales and marketing effort. We're doing a ton to expand and are working for good partners to do so with. So we've done four acquisitions gone really well, looking for more, um, that's that pitch. So to speak, it's a really heavy one. Um, the other thing we, we have e-commerce week LA coming up September 28th through October 2nd. So if you go to e-commerce week.la, um, that's going to be a really fun event, got about 10 we're expecting about 10,000 attendees. So it should be exciting. And, uh, what else is happening? Um, th those are the two cool things. I mean, growing the business fast and doing a bunch of stuff to give back to the community and bring it together.

Speaker 1 (29:39):

That's awesome, man. Well, Eric, you've been an amazing

Speaker 4 (29:42):

Guests. You always over-deliver. Thank you so much for being on the show. Really appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (29:53):

[inaudible]

Speaker 4 (29:54):

Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the rich dad, poor ed podcast. If you're like me and listen to podcasts on the go, go ahead and subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and rich dad, poor dad.com/podcast. And if you absolutely love the show, go ahead and leave a review and a comment share with a friend. If you do take a copy screenshot of it, email me zach@funneldash.com. Show me you left a review. I'll give you a free copy of the rich add pour ed book to learn more about the book, go to rich ed pura.com to leave a review that a rich had poor dad.com/review. Thanks again.