Vince (03:25):

Thanks for having me, man. I appreciate it. I'm excited.

Zach (03:28):

Yes. Yes. So for everybody that's that, uh, hasn't had a chance to, to, to work with you and, um, kind of learn what you're all about. Maybe, you know, share a little bit about what you're up to right now and how you got there.

Vince (03:41):

Well, West Philadelphia born and raised. No, I was actually from California actually. No, you know, I, uh, grew up wanting to play football, wanting to ride football on Sundays and, um, that didn't work out. So after school, I was like, I gotta just find something else to do. Didn't want to be that former wast of athlete working at the grocery store. So get the typical Google search, how to make money on the internet. And that led me down the, just those spiral hole of digital marketing and, uh, uh, specifically lead generation. And that's where I, where I am today. And that's been for the last decade

Zach (04:22):

Lead gen for a decade. Here's, here's what I really appreciate about straight and why I wanted to have you on the show is I mentioned it in your intro, but dude, you are just like a beast. Like you're in beast mode all the time. Like I, I get, uh, w you know, we, we had a lot of people in the show and we talked about a lot of entrepreneurs and, you know, there's a lot of just like, Hey, what's going on? And there's just a lot of fluff. And one thing I can always count on, like, Vance is just like, I know what the agenda is, and I'm going to stay on target. And I'm like, the second I'm done with that. And I meet the goal, like I'm done, I'm off the phone and every time I've interacted with them, I always just sit, you know, hanging up on the other side of the phone, like, geez, that guy's focused. I love it. And, you know, in the business that you're in was set up my ads, it's easy to get distracted. Right. It's easy to get pulled into client demands and, you know, their and their story. And like, what do you need? And, um, and you know, I, I w I was totally that guy for you for a few months, but, uh, but like, how do you do it, man? Like, for all that, for all the other agencies and advertisers know listening, what's your, is it Adderall? Or what drugs are you on?

Vince (05:36):

No, it's so funny. You say that a lot of people ask me like, Vince, do you like do drugs? Like that question, because I get up at four in the morning, like, I'm, I just go and go. And I, um, you know, you can come test me every single day, man. I promise you I'm clean. I just, you know, I think for me, um, it, it really cause there was some not making it in the NFL to be quite honest with you. I know that I did so many things wrong. I didn't work hard. I was gifted as an athlete, but I didn't work hard in the weight room. I didn't run hard and wind sprints. And when I got to college and I saw guys make the next level that I know I might've had more God ability then, but didn't have it in here at the time, the heart, the mindset, I just made a point to never, ever be able to make that excuse in business.

Vince (06:21):

So, you know, for me, you may have made more money than you may be smarter, but you'll never outwork me. And that's kind of my mindset. And I keep that written on a whiteboard. Um, my favorite quote is a why as though it's more than the fold and the folders on the wise. So I listen to everyone. I always make sure that I tell myself, you don't know may continue to get better. Right. And, uh, you know, that's just kind of what drives me every single day to know that, um, you know, you've got to continue to work on. So anyhow, that hopefully that answers.

Zach (06:55):

Yeah. Uh, I think will Smith says something like that, right? Like you're never going to die before I get off the treadmill or something like that. And, uh, you'll never outwork me. We'll do that. That totally speaks to, I think the very first interaction I had with you was on Facebook messenger. And, uh, you had the, uh, domain set up my capital. I'm like, here's a media buyer that actually understands, you know, finance and the lending space. I got to hit them up. And, um, and your immediate response was like, Hey man, do you do early work? Like I'm up at four or 5:00 AM? And I'm like, no, most people are like, yeah, let's talk next week. You know, let's, let's, let's, here's my Calendly link, schedule a call. And you were just like, boom. And, uh, I absolutely love it. So Honduras, tons of respect over here for your skills, but Dylan, take it away, man.

Zach (07:43):

Let's, let's dive into, what's working now with Vince Vince. I mean, we love to kind of dive into what's working good for you in the industry right now. I mean, for some of my ads, you know, in particular, we'd love to just kind of learn about maybe some strategies, some offers something that was such a game changer that is kind of, you know, like that works. So, I mean, the first thing that kinda comes to mind, what's working really good for you kind of right now, it's your wrench yet? What's your red dead laid off [inaudible]

Vince (08:08):

Yeah. You know, what's interesting is right now, I think for the first time, in like a couple of years, we don't have active ads running because we re shifted a few and made some new ads that were about to roll out next week. But one of my principles has been, you know, you're asked to be running 24 seven, three 65, um, with the focus of building your list, right? You have to be building your list. Um, you know, I'm kind of old school. My mentor taught me to build my list and that was her biggest asset. His mentor taught him that. So ultimately that's why lead gen is so important. Um, it is the biggest assets of whatever you're doing as a business owner. It always comes back to Legion. So, um, here's what I will tell you, what's working and I'm going to give, I'll give it, I'm gonna assume that most people here are media buyers and like run ads. So I have to like be too basic. I'm a, so I'm gonna assume that and I make that assumption. I do.

Zach (08:59):

Yeah, no, I, I, I think that's definitely fair to say. And, um, yeah, that's definitely fair to say.

Vince (09:05):

So, you know, obviously we're in a pandemic right now as we're making this podcast. So I think that the most important thing that you have to do as a media buyer or as an advertiser is have the ability to pivot and adjust and adapt and listen. Um, I think sometimes people get caught up in like, this is how you do it. It works like this. Everybody's sort of like it. And I think that's the worst mistake you can make. Um, as a media buyer, you have to listen and it's not about what we want or what we think it's about your client. What is it that they want? What does it mean? Do you have, can you solve their biggest problem? But from a media buyer perspective, it really is. We can get into the ad technicalities, which we will, but what we do that I just want to bring home one point the biggest issue, why there's a lot of pivoting from advertising from advertising perspective is we always have this thought in our mind of like, or how, like we need to make this thing work.

Vince (10:03):

And what we're saying, when we say read to make something work is we need to make this thing make money. Like, that's what we're really saying. Like does that, like, when someone asks me, what's your best strategy, like what's the best, best platform what's working. What you're really asking me is what's making money, right? And the first thing you have to realize when you're writing ads is every platform works. Because what you pay for when you run an ad is to get an impression it's for someone to see it. If somebody saw your ad, it worked, that's what, that's, where it should put the money in the Google Facebook or whatever it works. So that's the first step. It's the mindset now? How do you make it make money and be profitable is a different thing. And that's why the principle of list-building is so important.

Vince (10:51):

And why I always drive media buyers back to building the asset and building your list. Because even if the initial offer doesn't work, if you're doing your job as a media buyer, understand what it is that your client wants or problems that they have, then you should always be able to say, okay, they didn't want that offer. Okay, let me step back. What was my offer? Why did they opt in? Let me formulate something else that they may want, that they may buy and be able to make it work, which is what you're asking me, make it proper, make it make money. So that's just from a principal perspective for you to get into, because everyone wants to know the technicalities, but I can go give you a technicality right now. And you bet I didn't work. Not that I'll say it did work, but somebody clicked your ad to somebody. See it, it works. Maybe your message was off. Maybe your offer wasn't strong. Right? So that is the principle. Now tactical, do you want me to kind of drive into like what's working from a tactical perspective? Oh

Zach (11:43):

Yeah. Yeah.

Vince (11:45):

All right. So we've got that right. I think that's important just because, um, so many people struggle with that. So from a tactical perspective, it's this, you guys I'm sure aware social media has openly loudly admitted that they're running out of ad space. I mean, they're putting ads like that are popping up in may, are now trying to finance, right? It's like, they're just trying to put ad anywhere because it literally running out of head space. And, um, I got started over a decade ago, you know, in 2007, I started, I went full-time in 2008, there was no social media ads really back then, um, when I started running social media and it was just white column ads, but everybody was doing Google ads, Bing ads and search traffic ads when I got started. So I sometimes feel like I'm like grandma or that your parents, if I walked 10 miles in the snow, like, you know, like that's how I feel as an advertiser.

Vince (12:45):

Um, I mean, I remember there was no or like click funnels or, you know, Kajabi or any of these things and make things easy. Either go pay a guy or a website and, and pages over here, the videos over here. And it's like, it's just a mess, but all of these skills have helped me today. So ultimately what's working is I'm kind of gone back to basics. I view social media today as a giant billboard with, as the word with parameters. Meaning if I drive down the street, you see a billboard, you drive by it each and every day. If it doesn't resonate with you, then you just see it, but you don't do anything. You just kind of drive by it, right? The media is the exact same thing. The only difference would be if we kind of use the same analogy of like driving down the street, seeing a billboard, it'd be as if you're driving on the street, all of a sudden your car just comes through complete stop and you can't drive anymore.

Vince (13:40):

And then something pops up on your grandchild and says, you can only continue to go forward. If you're between the ages of 22 and 35, who like the Lakers, right. It just gives you parameters. So for me, I like to think the business. So what I've done is I actually only leveraged these days, social media, a retargeting. And what I do is I leverage YouTube and Google and old search traffic parameters to get them out of the people that are actively looking, watching, or in need of the products and services that I have to offer, um, with specific offers. And then I just simply retarget them media and, uh, it's been amazing. So then what I'm able to do at that point is my look alike audiences so much stronger. Um, because now I'm actually in front of the people that were actively interested in looking forward to this offer, um, you know, much more, you know, it comes down to really understanding how your build in the first one, plus when you're running ads, you know, we're built on from a seat from on a CPM perspective, right?

Vince (14:40):

So basically your aunt's, it's put, it's put out in front of a thousand people based on what happens, you're charged. And there's this crazy formula that your clicks that everything through to dictate what you're charging. Typically it's three dot three to $10 per 1000 impressions. Well, I kind of looked at that. I'm like, well, what if one, a thousand impressions that were shown on social media were all people that actually were looking and interested in what I have to offer versus what Facebook says they're interested in, right? Because at the end of the day, in reality, if you target, let's just say Tony Robbins audience, that doesn't mean that those people were interested in Tony Robbins. You go to a Tony Robbins event, you take a picture at the event, your friend sees it there. Oh, he went to a Tony Robbins event. Guess what? That friend who can't stand Tony Robins is now with the Tony Robbins event. And when your ad gets put in front of him, he just costs you one of your 1000 impressions. But if I go get a thousand people that were watching a YouTube ad on Facebook or YouTube, or how to get leads online, they click on my website, they go into an audience. And that only show those people, my ad on social media. Okay. That is the strategy that I'm rolling.

Zach (15:51):

So just way higher quality pixel data due to using Google and YouTube for hire and send colder users and then retargeting on the Facebook. That's one thing you kind of mentioned. I absolutely love, I think, should be emphasized without a doubt is being able to pivot. I mean, I feel like even as most media buyers, you can't fall in love with creative campaigns, everything dies. So, I mean, I think that's a really key point just to point out reiterate, I love that

Vince (16:19):

You have to, I mean, um, you know, at the end of the day, I think kind of to go to your point, Zach, I think they're only the one thing that I can say I'm and again, in the most humble way, I actually live lead generation. So I'm not the guy who just teaches it or runs ads for clients. I have businesses, as you found one, a lot of people don't even know it's me. That generates leads for massive industries, right? So lead generation is literally what I do. So when it's teaching it or running ads for clients, I get all the hurdles and the struggles that you're going through because I'm growing actual companies in the Legion space. And I think that that's one of the struggles with, you're just running ads for clients. Your job is to get more clients. So you just want to keep them happy. So it not, it's not always a mental capacity to get better. It's more just to keep your client happy. So you keep kind of doing the same cookie cutter ads. Whereas when I'm running ads for real businesses, I'm like, how do I get these costs down? How don't you the quality? Yeah. So I'm doing all this different stuff because I'm actually trying to build a real company and then taking those strategies and then working with clients or teaching them how to do it.

Speaker 3 (17:31):

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Zach (18:32):

Ad card@funneldash.com. All right, Vince, I want to know you're not perfect. I want to hear about some of that. You thought it was gonna work and it's gotta be something that you're just, just a tad bit embarrassed to admit.

Vince (18:50):

I mean, there's a, there's numerous ads that, you know, in fact the majority of them don't work mean. So I think that when, so I love to make kind of creative ads, like, you know, I like to do fun stuff, like, you know, make a video and have some crazy things happening to get people's attention. And what I found is that anytime I make an ad and I that's like over the top, sometimes it doesn't perform as well as just grabbing a phone and just say, Hey, what's up. Want me to help you get better leads over here, but really kind of is annoying. But, so there's been a few instances where I've done a few things, made a couple of just crazy videos and set on money and time and they just completely bombed. So

Zach (19:38):

I want to hear one.

Vince (19:40):

I don't know. You probably didn't see it cause it didn't last very long.

Zach (19:43):

Um, let's see.

Vince (19:48):

Um, there's, there's, there's been a couple just video ads that I've made where like I'll write the copy. And then I can't think of any one particular game I'll give you. I'll give you an example. There was one ad and one thing that, okay. One thing that I do do, like if I do do an ad that I spent a lot of time and it doesn't work, I can sometimes take that ad and spin it, like change it and make it work in a different way. But let me give you an example. So there was one ad that I thought was going to be the best ad ever. In fact, my video guy, we're about to shoot videos right after this tier, we ran an event and I came up with this crazy idea to run this ad, leveraging, um, doing a VR, right? So, um, basically long story short, I was going to meet with a client in a virtual reality world.

Vince (20:35):

Right? And then in the virtual reality world, I was going to basically tell him that if you want to grow your business, you need to get more leads and more sales. But when I first ran the ad, everybody thought the ad was about virtual reality. They didn't even realize that I was trying to get people to like learn marketing. So I'll read the ads and find that I was going to work with. And they're like, Oh, you're selling VR glasses. I'm like, no, dude, like watch it's about lead generation. They're like, no, I thought you were trying to sell VR machines or something. So that's an instance of an ad that didn't do well.

Zach (21:10):

That's so good. VR tech.

Vince (21:14):

It was funny. So I liked the first ad side and he was like texting me. And then I was texting them back. And then it was like a Wednesday. It was like, when is, when are we be? I'm like, you're going to meet 30 minutes. This is like just the text back and forth to now I see you there. So then you see him kind of waiting around for 15 minutes and then we show the clock ticking down and then he just throws and puts on the VR machine that you see me in the other hotel room, put on my VR machine and we met. So it wasn't like some of the way the ad was, it was like, we're going to go, actually I have a meeting, but we're meeting in this VR world. So people thought that the ad was about as texting and then the VR. And then we finally got into the ad or they never even made that far. So it was a great idea.

Zach (21:53):

Oh my gosh. So funny dude, innovative, but yeah, I can see, all right, here's here. Here's our last segment. We're all about bringing the world of advertising and marketing, uh, and really infusing it into the world of, of finance. And one of the things I appreciate is just like how direct and simple you can, you keep things on this front. And, uh, I'm, there's really two parts. So it's just like curious if you could share a little bit about how you think about, you know, in terms of operating your business. And then the second part is really how you set things up with set up my ads. I think a lot of the agencies could really, uh, learn a thing or two about how you structure those relationships, those, those contracts to, I think, like set up a no fail type situation where I think a lot of agencies are, um, still kind of trying to figure out like what the right model is, who owns the funnel who's who owns the ad account. Like how much should, you know, how much should my retainer be or percentage of spend. And, uh, I feel like you're just really specific and focused on, um, what your model is and then also how you operate in the business. So share with us a little bit.

Vince (23:09):

So set up my ads is, is different than kind of what we did, right? So my core business that I've done for at least the last five years has been a pay per lead business. That's separate than set up by it. Then set up my ad set of my ads. It's kind of like a hybrid agency as an education company that had a baby with a digital agency. I can explain that later, but my core is a pay per lead business, which is different than the agency model. So basically I get clients that, um, you know, are willing to spend a hundred, 150 bucks per lead. And we go out there and we generate these subtle signs. They pay off on every single lead, right? So it's a very simple model. I like it because it keeps us engaged to keep the lead cost down and something, I don't know if I haven't really had a chance to share with you.

Vince (23:55):

A lot of it is because of what I shared earlier. It keeps me learning new ways to get better at marketing. I felt when I was running the traditional agency route where we were just charging management fees and run a gap, then it's just, you get in this hat, just make yeah. And just getting them happy. But it's not really like this, this out boring for me, be honest with you. Like I like to like, you know, just brush it and just get the lowest, the highest quality lead and work and figure out new things. So, but traditionally just C model didn't really get me that excited. So the way I make the bulk of my revenue is S a paper lead agency. So, and I only take on individual clients. That's something, something separate instead of my head's a little bit different. It's an education company upfront.

Vince (24:38):

So we typically target coaches, consultants, course creators agencies. And we basically show them how to run ads, right? So they come in, they can buy this program. We walk them through and they have weekly calls with us. And then those clients specifically can then hire us from a traditional agency model. So I don't go out there and say, Hey, we want to manage your ads. Like typical agencies. Like we're an agency, we're running your ads. I come at you like, Hey, let me help you with marketing. We'll show you how to run ads. You'll get me as your mentor. I'll show you that works. And once you become a semi ads member, you call it systemized, which you have a systemized member inside in our members area. If you're just like, you know what events I love you, mentorship is great. This stuff is interesting, but you know what? My head is about to blow up. I don't want to do this anymore. They can then hire us from a more traditional agency model where we charge a management fee. And we've got a team that handles that for just those people. All right. So that's kind of, it's kind of how one or two businesses.

Zach (25:34):

Yeah. And, and how do you look at, you know, your, your business in terms of just, you know, how do you think about managing your, your, your cashflow keeping things so simple? We've had a lot of people in the show talk about VC debt, uh, you know, credit cards. And I just feel like your approach is so plain vanilla and simple and, and, uh, I'd love for you to share it.

Vince (25:57):

Yeah. I mean, knock on wood. We've never had to raise capital. We've never debt for your company. Um, you know, we operate strictly on cashflow. Um, and I think that a lot of it is because of the model. So, um, for example, we've recently like one of the pivots that talked about from a set of my ads perspective to become a member, it used to be just, you had to pay like five grand and be a member, and then you could pay us to be your agency. We've shifted to a continuity model, which is Harold. So now if you're a member of systemize, we work with you weekly, you know, all of our training, you can come in for like 300 bucks a month. And then if you want to hire us, then just the traditional agency route could be two or three grandpa plus add all that stuff.

Vince (26:40):

So just those individuals, so that continuity model fuels cashflow. And then my other business, my pay per lead business is this strictly word of mouth has to be the right kind of client or business. I don't even advertise it. Um, and we'll set up the whole process, um, obviously, you know, and then we'll just kinda work from there. Um, but, uh, yeah, I mean that, that is such a cashflow business because, you know, the money is upfront. There's very little risk. The client pays for their, how many leads they want and we just deliver. The only risk is if we can't generate leads to lower than the a hundred, $150 that we promise. And if we can't, we will look, we'll send their own money to make sure that the client believes that they purchase.

Zach (27:22):

And how much can you spend on a, an offer, like set up my ads, right? It's, it's kind of this like introductory offer for new advertisers. I'm just curious, you know, have you been able to scale that much or

Vince (27:35):

What's really cool is that we just create, for the first time we have a new front end offer, that's working really well. We just tested it and we actually make money on it, every client, um, which has been interesting, we came up with kind of like a new front end offer, um, that, um, is it's a lower ticket offer. And then to those members, we've been just selling the continuity, give them full access to everything we have now,

Zach (28:01):

Traffic, you don't run traffic to set up my ads anymore. You're running it to your, your new front end office.

Vince (28:07):

I we're in the process of making them yes. But that's what the whole thing is going to shift to the new front end offer. And then exactly. Um, which gives them a piece of what we call our training portal, which ultimately, um, what we focus on is really helping advertisers cut the lead costs to have an increased conversions. So even today we get leads in multiple platforms for, you know, a dollar like 50 cents.

Zach (28:31):

What do you think about, so what price point is this new offer at? Is it just,

Vince (28:36):

I think even it's such a secret that I'm saying only because it's using so, so we actually use an invisible funnel offer. So it's basically $0, um, for the first seven days. And then it's $97 one time in seven days, if you like it, if you don't like it cancel, we don't believe anything. Or you could just get it right now for 37 bucks. So we take all the risks and they, and they get like two of our core programs. One teaches you how to structure your ads the right way, like the process that we implement to be able to get leads law, and then kind of like our philosophy behind retargeting, which is what I explained to you guys earlier, how we have merged search with social.

Zach (29:14):

All right. Let's just pause here because a lead gen guy is running an offer at a 37 and $97 price. Why? This is like night and day, man. You're, you're like entering in the Holy land here of breaking, even in profitable on your ads, like within a week, I feel like they want even better. Yeah. Like the, you know, most of your entire career has been like lead call. Yeah. 30, 60, 60 day time to break even. And like, how, how amazing does it feel when you just like, get that feedback of like, Oh, this is working,

Vince (29:52):

It's crazy. I mean, um, you know, early in my career before I really knew what I was doing, I would do some of this type of stuff, but I never had a back end. Right. Yeah. Then I would always lose money. So, um, maybe we just said, we're just going to do the one thing, like you just said, and then we were always profitable. And then I was like, well, what would happen if we just get both? Right. So we've been doing both and we were able to generate the leads for free and in most cases at a profit and you'd be shocked, most people are taking the third, just paying the 37. I think then they're going to the 300 a month, right after that, then about hiring us as an agency for two or three grand a month. So we've really tried to build a continuity model agency, um, that is different than what we've got for down. So that's the whole new, new way we're doing.

Zach (30:40):

That's awesome, man. Um, I love it. Well, Vince, you've been an amazing guest. I love all the insights that you're sharing. Uh, why don't you share with folks listening a little bit about what you're up to next, how we can support you and how they can get in touch.

Vince (30:54):

I mean, I'm always here to help, um, open book, Sam ads.com. So those you guys handle the checkout and hack the fall. I know that's the thing don't get too comfortable cause I'm known to pivot quite quickly. Um, but, uh, no, um, no, all seriousness, um, anything I can ever do to help anybody, you know, just let me know and uh, you know, rule number one, just focus on building the list and, and, uh, it's all about list building. I think that we've got to get back to basics as advertisers. It's just, you know, nurture that list and, uh, that's the deal.

Zach (31:29):

I love it. Well, there you go. Thanks so much, man. I appreciate it. Awesome. Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the rich ed or ed podcasts. If you're like me and listen to podcasts on the go, go ahead and subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and rich dad, poor dad.com/podcast. And if you absolutely love the show, go ahead and leave a review and a comment share with a friend. If you do take a copy screenshot of it, email me zack@funneldash.com. Show me you left a review. I'll give you a free copy of the rich add or ed book to learn more about the book. Go to rich ed for a.com to leave a review that a rich ad for at.com/review. Thanks again.