Zach R (02:44):

What's up? Thank you for the intro brother.

Dylan (02:48):

Yeah. Yeah. You know, we had a good little chat before this, so it was like man media buyer and immediate buyers. One's going to be juicy.

Zach R (02:56):

We spent most of the time just nerding out on ads, man. That's all right. So go ahead,

Dylan (03:02):

Everybody. A little backstory of yourself, kind of what you're getting into to kind of give everybody some context.

Zach R (03:06):

Yeah. So essentially like to date myself a little bit, I ran my first, uh, my first media buying experience was back in 2004. I was running Google ads back in the day, uh, and uh, to some affiliate product probably like make money or something along those lines. And I just got obsessed with the idea of like total strangers giving me money over the internet, to be honest with you. And it literally sparked this passion of mine. And I worked for someone, uh, well, the largest agency in Canada, that's where I really learned the agency side of the business. Uh, and I was able to, uh, parlay that into my first agency, which was white label ads, which we talked about a little bit. And what I realized is that I'm not built for production-based agency. I'm kind of more of a lifestyle agency and we mostly focus in on the quality of the work. Uh, we're not about volume clients. We're, we're really about finding that sweet spot of conversion, uh, partnership and growth man for our partners. So that's, that's basically the last what's that 20 years in a nutshell.

Dylan (04:13):

Oh man. Yeah, go into that wild label convo. It's like, Ooh, it's a stressful volume-based model there for sure. Yeah.

Zach R (04:20):

Yeah, definitely. And I just found that it attracted a different type of client because you're dealing with a lot of agencies and a lot of agencies, um, can be a little bit high-strung. So like I've been in situations where we were getting great results for the clients, but, and I was happy client was happy, but the agency wasn't, it was, uh, it was confusing and learning and dude, I'm all about easygoing itself. That's kind of my approach to my agency and really focusing and double down on the human side of things.

Dylan (04:51):

Oh, for sure. Especially when they're penny pinchers and you already have great, you know, you know, usually 50% of wholesale cost of the wild label and they're expecting, you know, full price stuff, you know,

Zach R (05:01):

Definitely. They're like, you know, more production, more production when you a row ads. It's like, man, you guys only pay like a thousand dollars a month, man. It's all good. Yeah, no, definitely. So I was lucky enough to go through that experience and find what, what I like to do. I've always been a marketing nerd man at heart. So it's a, it's definitely nice to kind of find your spot and you know, you, everyone, my wife always says is like, you're super lucky to know exactly what you wanted to do. I was like, I just had to try a bunch of things and then fail a lot, but I found it.

Dylan (05:34):

Oh yeah. And I mean, sometimes failures are the best thing to kind of open up another perspective or learn something new. So I mean the, you know, if you weren't failing, you're not doing something right.

Zach R (05:44):

Definitely man. And like in the instance for the, the white label ad ad agency was extremely successful, but it was, I was failing in another way, man. I was failing in my time. I had no time, uh, energy and I was stressed all the time. Right. So it's like, it's nice to be focused on something where the clients appreciate the work. And I literally get to be myself and nerd out on marketing all day.

Dylan (06:09):

Oh yeah. Well, speaking of neuron now let's go ahead and dive into this rich ad segment. We got something for y'all today. We've got a rolls Royce ad from 1959,

Dylan (06:24):

The second ad of this kind on the podcast. But I feel like shoot, you know, with a lot of marketing, there's no reason to reinvent the wheel sometimes. So these old school ads in this, you know, bring new ideas perspectives to kind of really capitalize on your current marketing efforts. So go ahead and break down this ad for us and kind of give everybody an idea of, you know, how it is. And just so everybody knows, you can kind of find the screenshot in the show notes of the podcast, make sure to check it out the Zack, go ahead and kinda give everybody an idea of, you know, what this is, you know, and whatever happens to you there.

Zach R (06:52):

Yeah, definitely. So what I find as marketers and as media buyers and agencies, we tend to overcomplicate things like, like you were saying, reinvent the wheel. Uh, and if you look in the marketplace right now, I'm seeing so much of the same ads, very similar creative. Um, and if you can look back at some of the old G stuff, man, it can just breathe new, breathe, new life, into your, uh, into your ad. So simply put this ad is a sum. It's a man sitting in his car there, his family is walking towards the car. It looks like it's the middle of the day. So they're definitely targeting, uh, that executive. And anytime I look at an ad, I'm kind of breaking it down to three ways. Like who, what, what are we actually selling? Who's a four, what are we actually selling? And why do they want to buy from us?

Zach R (07:42):

And this is the perfect example of that for me. Uh, so this guy is sitting in this car, chilling is probably Tuesday afternoon. You know, the boss is cutting off work early, picking up his family, doing all of those things back in 1959, like you can imagine the, the cost of the standard vehicle there is about like $3,000. Uh, and in this ad they're selling their car for 13, nine 95. Absolutely. Uh, love it. So the only person that would technically be qualified for this is someone who's gonna be able to pay that price. So who's this for, this is for an executive man, somebody who runs their own business and entrepreneur, somebody who wants to, to stand out and what are they selling here? They're selling status, baby. You know, there's no, there's no other way to kind of look at that. Living the dream, being able to pick up your family at leisure, do what you want. Uh, and the next part of it is all about the why, like why do we want to buy from you? And the headline simply States at 60 miles an hour allowed us noise in the new rolls. Royce comes from its electronic clock.

Dylan (08:46):

It says so much even the one next to it just really speaks to the audience because I mean, these, you know, shoot C level individuals. I mean, th th they all want, always want the best. So I mean, that next point, what makes rolls Royce, the best car in the world? That little line right there, I feel like did so much good. I feel like it just really calls out that ideal avatar that you just kind of, you know, spoke about.

Zach R (09:08):

Yeah, definitely 100% man, 100%. And then underneath that, there's literally one to 13 reasons on why you should buy this car essentially, of what makes it so great. Now it's so simple. Um, and I think it's overlooked. And again, some of the things I absolutely love, I love that the prices is out. We talked about this. He said that he had a client that, um, you know, you guys are having more of a scarcity, um, build up and supply and demand thing, which is totally awesome. What we've noticed in a lot of our clients, uh, products that we sell, we sell, uh, you know, we sold engagement rings and all different types of stuff. If we display that price, we find that traffic it's a little bit more all ified, because if someone's not willing to drop, you know, $13,995 on a car, they're not going to be reaching out.

Dylan (09:55):

Oh, most definitely. Yeah,

Zach R (09:57):

Definitely. So this is, this is a classic and I literally have pull, if you look at any of the ads that I actually create is it's very similar. We use these a picture or a video that kind of shows the product in use. And then we really go into explaining all the benefits in the features where the strong call to action, uh, by when we display that price. And then it converts pretty well.

Dylan (10:18):

So with y'all's kind of approach going more for the, the human methodology or consumer behavior side of things, what are the first few things you think about before even creating an X man copy more or less?

Zach R (10:31):

Yeah. So again, it comes back to those three main core answers. And I don't even remember where I picked this up. It's not necessarily originally mine. I think most things in marketing art, it's kind of like, we all kind of borrow and steal from each other a little bit. Uh, but you know, like who we're selling to, I, I want to know this in-depthly so we would create, uh, like most marketing agencies or media buying agencies really focusing on, like, they build an avatar, which is absolutely great, but we take it a step further. We want to build an avatar for somebody who is not an ideal client. Who's going to buy this product and try to return it and complain and blame all of their problems in the world, on you. We don't want that person to buy. Uh, and we really just try to dive deep into these individual psyches by building these profiles.

Zach R (11:18):

Uh, and then we're able to come up with angles and copy. Uh, and basically if we can answer those three questions like who we're actively selling to what it is we're actually selling. So in this car, we're not selling a car, uh, in this ad, we're actually selling status. You know what I mean? The best in the world, just as you stated, uh, and he wants the best in the world, those individuals. So that's what we're actually selling. And then it comes down to the why, like, why do they want to buy from you man? And that conversation it's like humans for thousands of years have been buying a certain way. If you can answer those three questions on the top, man, there's all your copy, your creative and most of everything that you need from a human psychology standpoint. Now there's obviously a more in depth stuff that we can do, uh, and that we do do like, so we get into customer journey and all that stuff like that.

Zach R (12:10):

But that's in a nutshell now. And if you can answer those three simple questions, you can, you can start to see some results in your ads, man. Something that stood out the most with what you mentioned is actually creating avatars for the people you don't want. I think that is something a lot of marketers pay attention to because negative feedback shovels way farther than positive feedback. So if you can go ahead and identify that out of the gate, you may Dodge a couple of bullets. Definitely. And what we've seen is literally like one copy line being changed, like, and refund rates go down and all different types of stuff. So it's definitely interesting to see from that perspective, for sure, man, man. Well, this was quite a, quite a time machine back to the 1950s there. Yeah, no, I absolutely love it. And you know, coming on the show, I wanted to think of something that I actually look at on a regular basis for inspiration. So I thought I would share hell yeah, man, that's a killer one.

Zach (13:06):

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Zach R (14:23):

Check it out@funneldash.com. Well, that was a rich ad. We love to dive into, you know, what's not working, what's crash and burn just because, you know, we all love to flex. What's going well, but you know, at the end of the day, it's good to always see, you know, people you look up to in your industry having issues as well. So kind of on the poor ad side, what's not working over there at all for you. So lack of testing would be the biggest hurdle that we faced other than like, so, cause there's on the ad side, I find it's fairly volatile right now. Wouldn't you agree? Like I, if you're in any Facebook group, you see somebody every day, there are the CPMs messed up. Is this everybody everybody's wondering what's going on? Uh, on the stuff that we can actually control was the level of testing was probably, uh, the thing that was not working for us.

Zach R (15:19):

We were running like a test or two a week. Now we've got it up to where we're running tests, uh, on a regular basis. And what we do is we take a percentage of our client's budget and now that could be so small and it doesn't necessarily matter what that percentage is. Sometimes we run a smallest $40 just to run a bunch of random tests. What that would consist of would be like CBO five different audiences, five different creative, and just to see what works. And then we will isolate that they're winning creative and then we'll end the winning audience and then we'll do it, run it in as a main campaign and grow and scale that way. So basically what what's not working is gone are the days of grab a, an ad on Valley Baba and drop ship heaven. I think it's, uh, you need to pass and you need to be creative. And I believe the consumer is getting smarter and smarter. Uh, and, and they understand a lot of these, these processes. So that's what I see. That's not working out for us was lack of

Dylan (16:19):

Fantastic. So what do you think once you kind of were able to kind of figure out that bottleneck, once you were able to kind of start testing more, did you see a drastic change in performance or was it kind of a gradual increase or an immediate, how did that kind of pan out

Zach R (16:34):

Immediate? Like within, within days, like were, um, we had a bunch of campaigns that were even just going into a labor day here. We were doing like labor day sales and we had all this stuff. Things were not performing the way that they were even a month ago. For some reason we hadn't changed, but something had changed whether that was California losing the pixel or whatever. There's a thousand, there's a thousand reasons why things were happening. Uh, but we just said, you know what, uh, we're not going to let it be because of a lack of, uh, of effort on our side. So let's get aggressive, let's get testing. And we started doing that and we saw immediate results. We found so many more winning audiences, winning creatives. We actually have a lineup of winning creatives ready to go when, when things stopped working. So, uh, it's just being prepared, Manning and getting in front of that. And I think a lot of people don't realize what business we're in. If you ever seen the movie, the founder.

Dylan (17:27):

Yes. And

Zach R (17:29):

They're like, yeah, I don't think you realize what business you're in. You're not in the hamburger business. You're in the real estate business somewhat to that. You know, we're not necessarily just in the advertising business, we're in the idea of businessmen, the more ideas we come up with, the better creative we have, the better copy a better life is. And, uh, yeah, man, it's just about focusing that energy and always be testing. I literally, that's a mantra that I, that I say every day always be testing, always be testing because it's true. The more tests you run, the more chance you have of finding success faster. Oh yeah.

Dylan (18:01):

I mean, I love when testing gets brought up and so these to kind of just show them how importance it is, because I mean, if you have, you know, even if you have to have the exact same brands selling the exact same product with the same funnel, I mean, if you're both spending 10 K a month, but once testing a hundred creative assets a month versus 10, you do more do better at the end of the day, obviously.

Zach R (18:21):

Yeah, man, 100%. I absolutely love it. I think it's underutilized, uh, now, and there's, there's people that do it like next level. I see a lot of people that would be doing like, um, scroll stoppers and all, all of these different processes. And we tried again, everything in my life and my business is simplified, man. We literally just pulled out a little budget and we just started testing like very rudimentary and it made a huge difference. Not like we weren't testing, we were just doing it at as much slower pace. So now even on smaller budgets, uh, we can find things that seem to be working with isolate that and run it in its own campaign. It can go from there.

Dylan (19:00):

And I mean, a lot of people think you need heavy budgets to test, but I mean, we've had numerous people where it's like, you're mentioning 40, 50 bucks. Others are mentioning a hundred bucks a day, or, I mean, you don't need an arm and a leg to kind of really test. So it's good to come up with a plan of attack and kind of be proactive and say, Hey, if I'm spending, you know, 10 K this month, I'm going to go ahead and allocate, you know, 15% of that just strictly for testing. So it's good to kind of stay proactive and kind of stick to your guns there because that's what moves the needle these days.

Zach R (19:26):

For sure. Definitely. And I think it plays to the strengths of the actual network. If you run a Facebook, definitely. Uh, and there's, there's the, the market size is the size that it is. And like if you're running, uh, creatives to leave, if you ever see like ad fatigue, for example, Oh yeah. Nothing worse than that. You're running a campaign to that market. Let's say it's a million people and you, this isn't a look like audience. Let's just say, it's like a standard audience. Uh, it's got a million people and you have something that's working you're you're on cloud nine. Life is good. And if you're not running any testing at that point, you should be very scared because eventually you're going to run into ad fatigue or something's going to change buying patterns. All these things will change. And then next thing you know, your well-performing ad will go from like five, six row ads to three to two to that. You know what I mean? You need to be proactive

Dylan (20:23):

For sure. And I mean, if y'all think Facebook's bad for, you know, create a fatigue, Snapchat and Tik TOK, or like a nightmare, just cause we have to cycle creative out so much faster because those CPMs are so cheap. So I mean, every platform is different there, but creative fatigue is such a real thing to kind of

Zach R (20:38):

The monitor definitely

Dylan (20:41):

Snap. I mean, that's quite a good little segment to segue into the more financial side of the podcast. So we love, you know, we have a lot of agencies, media, buyer businesses. So I mean, we've had financial tips on the scaling side, you know, trading points for Bitcoin, you know, starting boost Dravid versus, you know, getting venture capital or something along those lines. So, I mean, for a financial tip that you can kind of provide some value to, to our audience, what would you kind of, you know, what kind of tips would you give out there?

Zach R (21:09):

Uh, so you actually just, you brought up scaling and I th I think I can speak to that really well because we've been testing a bunch of things, uh, as far as like budget management for scaling, what I look at scaling in two ways, I look at it vertical and horizontal. And if we are, once we have that winning creative and that formula, it's all about giving Facebook what a needs man, and bringing it to new markets. So if I unpack that a little bit, essentially we would, we would allocate 15 to 30%, 30% on the maximum side, according to Facebook for or horizontal scaling. Uh, and so let's say you're, we wanted a thousand dollars. The original budget was a hundred dollars a day. You want to spend a thousand dollars a day. You solely bumped that up. We use 15 or 20% and slowly bumped that up over time.

Zach R (22:01):

And then that's, that's one way to scale. Uh, another, another horizontal method would be to duplicate that out, uh, at the desired budget, but we'll what we do. And I'm not sure how most people do it, but we have a, we do a CBO. And then inside of that CBO, we literally have five of the same ad set. And then whatever seems to be firing better, then we cut and slowly monitor that that'd be like the horizontal growth that I'd be looking at from a financial perspective. And then also our vertical rather. And if we're going to do a horizontal different countries, I think the U S market is great. But I also think there's a lot of other underutilized markets out there. So if I was looking at budget and you have the capability to ship to other countries and like digital products are awesome, like any type of apps, info, products, all of that stuff there, it's a big world out there, man.

Dylan (22:55):

Yeah. This is actually leading into a good point. So if you've already, you know, established some sort of authority and dominance, say for the U S and you wanted to break into some other territories or regions, how would you approach that to a client perhaps, and maybe with some recommendations?

Zach R (23:11):

Yeah, so I essentially like, so we just had a client, they have, they had a ridiculously huge budget. We were doing a trial with them. Uh, we didn't actually end up securing their business because, uh, they were so focused on the U S market. We could not get their CPA if it was a, uh, it was an iPhone cord, uh, essentially long story short. It had like this magnets in it. And I think it sold for like 1999, which is really hard to sell. It was massive. We tried everything. We were getting them to like a 1.2, 1.2. They wanted it to ROAS. We couldn't crack it. We went out into other markets and we ran worldwide, um, conversion. I think it was based on 1% lookalikes. And we were able to cut that in half. Um, the issue was that they were not able to ship effectively to those areas.

Zach R (24:04):

And if you're selling physical goods, it's, it's really hard. And I don't know if you've seen it, uh, Dillon, but when, when you buy something on Facebook, they're now like surveying people to see what, like, did you get your item? How did this work and that'll affect your quality score. So literally working with them for like, I think it was like two or three weeks, their quality score was like getting, getting terrible. So, which is going to mean that their account will, might get shut down and cause all these other problems. So, um, that's exactly how we did it. We did it just based off a CPA where like, look here, you want to get these results. We're not getting them in these markets, give us a budget to test outside. They said, okay, we did the test. And we found the result. The problem was that, uh, with physical products, you know, you got to ship them

Dylan (24:47):

Now with breaking into those new areas. Did you have to come up with different creative assets, different translations. I'm thinking of, you know, the concept of switching over. It doesn't sound too bad, but then you think of the actual execution. I'm like, shoot, that's a, quite a nice little change,

Zach R (25:02):

But I keep it very simple. I literally took exactly what we had. We ran it. Um, what was working in the U S market? We ran it worldwide for English speakers. It was converting like, uh, like crazy. I think we got the CPA, I think on like some of the good days were at like 2.6 on a $20 purchase, man. So like, there's, there's a ton of market out there now. Could we have done that? Uh, perhaps a little bit better. We were still in the testing phase. We never took it to the next level. What I would have done is I would have isolated those winning countries and then learned a little bit more about what's running in there. What what's working with the competitors are, uh, and then improve again, running our testing. Uh,

Dylan (25:45):

Oh yeah, because I mean, it should, each one of those regions are going to be completely different too.

Zach R (25:50):

Definitely. Like, again, it doesn't have to be complicated. You can just try it to see what works. And I'm not saying go full on with your budget, but take, take a hundred dollars, run a worldwide campaign for conversion. If you start to see the countries that pop, they it's basically like countries putting their hands up and say, Hey, sell to me please. And then they're like, okay. Yeah, there's 10 countries that are profitable. Let's deal with those countries. Uh, and then you can get down to the ground,

Dylan (26:15):

Man. And yeah. CPMs are so cheap there too. I would imagine. So. I mean, yeah, you mentioned a a hundred dollars budget. So I mean, it's, it doesn't seem like it's much to really test a new market there. So I mean, what, what's the, what do you have to lose? You know, I'm not sure check your production and shipping for anything, but I mean, you don't want to lose there really so much.

Zach R (26:33):

Oh, definitely. I think CPMs are like $2 or $3 and everyone's complaining about CPMs and it's like, if you could get a digital product to go to go, like to go and sell really well worldwide, like sky's the limit. That's almost like reminds me of, uh, some of the stuff that works on GDN men. If you get something that works on GDN Scottsdale.

Dylan (26:54):

Yeah. Because I'm just so used to Canada, the us, the UK markets where I don't see CPMs that cheap these days, it seems like. So, I mean, shoot. And you know, it's not just those three spots. There's a ton of people out there that want your product. So yep. I'll take notes. Definitely.

Zach R (27:11):

It's an opportunity. Right. So, uh, and again, it comes down to testing. We wouldn't have figured that out unless we ran the test around the test, we saw the data and I always say like, Facebook is so much smarter than, than, uh, myself and my team. We, we just know how to feed it, the right stuff.

Dylan (27:27):

You got to feed the beast. Yeah. The algorithm is just so much smarter than most media buyers these days too. I mean, I would even imagine maybe similar to you, but most of my audiences that just kill it with the most scalability or it's just a zero targeting or just an audience or a 10% look like where it's, you know, well over 30 million. So I mean, it's, it's the pixels pretty fricking solid and the algorithm is way smarter these days. So, I mean, take advantage of it. Don't try and get Susie to strategic. It may cause more harm than good, you know?

Zach R (27:54):

Yeah, definitely. So like, I wouldn't notice in the same thing Broad's doing well, 10% lookalike doing well, um, running directly to, uh, just audiences as well. Like not even using lookalike, just running for conversion on very large audiences have been working well for us. Uh, I find that, uh, you'll be paying a premium on those lookalike audiences as well. So like broad is a great one. Uh, you find audiences that convert with your stuff. There's another great source, man. Uh, and save that. And I always notice like when, especially when you're going into Q4 prices always go up, but even at the end of quarters, for some reason, like everything goes, all, goes all wonky and everybody goes crazy. I think Facebook is just increasing the price on this.

Dylan (28:37):

Oh yeah. Especially right now. I mean, COVID the elections, it's about the part of a new quarter. I mean the amount of variables I haven't written down over here just to like keep my head level, it'd be like, okay, it's not just me struggling. So

Zach R (28:52):

Facebook ad group on, on Facebook man, like everybody's going,

Dylan (28:58):

Oh yeah. I mean, yeah, if anybody's said that they're having zero issues right now, they're a liar. Definitely. And I think that's why

Zach R (29:06):

I was kind of alluding to that, but like everything that we do in our agency, there's so many like uncontrolled things that are out of our reach, but controlling on like the psychology and the ads and the testing, like that stuff that we can do internally and we can pull the levers to make things go up and down. Uh, even though it has been, uh, I would say August was, was probably the rougher month for us overall. Um, we probably saw about half of our role as drop what we still came out on across all of our accounts, three plus row as, and not just came down to us testing a lot more. Now you look at like June and July, we were getting like four or five ROAS and we weren't really testing anything like, you know, not the level that we should have been anyways.

Zach R (29:50):

Uh, so you know, things change, if you can focus in, on your systems and processes and on the human beings that you're selling to food life is eating true that well, man, this, this has been super, super solid here. Um, go ahead and give everybody kind of what's planned next and now you've got a bad-ass swipe file, but give everybody an idea of, you know, what you got cooking over there. Um, give a plug into that, shoot that link there, you kind of sent me, um, everybody had kind of an idea what's next for you? Yeah, so man, we're, we're just focusing on finding the right partners for us. We we've noticed that there's a lot of business out there in the marketplace. Uh, we're really just focusing on finding the right partners, uh, that are thinking longterm and in growth, anybody who's an e-commerce, uh, apps, info products, anybody who sells direct to a, to customer, that's kind of who we're really looking at our we're building out our team right now, which looks really, really good.

Zach R (30:45):

And, uh, we built a tool and I already, I already mentioned this, but like we're in the idea business. And I wanted to translate to my team how I come up with ideas and, and I think I was telling you, like, I go on walks, I get ideas. I'm in the shower. I get ideas. How do you teach somebody that, uh, so we started an internal swipe file and essentially what that is, is just like an idea generation machine. Uh, and we've seen lift across all of our accounts and all of our testing and you can check it out@swipefiledotprofitableads.com. There's no charge to it. Uh, we basically compiled almost every industry on the planet. Who's running Facebook ads and at a snapshot, you can get more ideas, see what's happening in those industries as seeing what's happening on Google trends, their landing pages, all that great stuff. Uh, we use that internally and we saw a great result. Our goal is just to add as much value to our marketplace as possible. We love our business. We love our market and, uh, this is our way of giving back the man Zack killer killer killer killer. Well, man, thanks for jumping on. It has been an absolute pleasure. [inaudible]

Zach (31:59):

Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the rich ed or ed podcast. If you're like me and listen to podcasts on the go, go ahead and subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and rich [inaudible] dot com slash podcast. And if you absolutely love the show, go ahead and leave a review and a comment share with a friend. If you do take a copy screenshot of it, email me zach@funneldash.com. Show me you left a review. I'll give you a free copy of the rich and poor ed book to learn more about the book, go to rich ed a.com to leave a review that a rich ed or at.com/review. Thanks again.