Ajit (04:02):

Absolutely. Hi, my name is [inaudible]. I am co-founder and CEO of Evercoach, which is a coach training platform. I am also co-founder of global grit, which is a online institution and an offline institution that helps companies create a greater impact in the world. Be, uh, help companies increase revenues and profits. And of course be able to create products that are really meaningful to the world outside. We're going to talk a little bit about that piece and of course, a piece of how coaching and how that can be brought in today from my pre-chat Zach and Dylan. Uh, before this, the, the way I got started was, uh, with a little company called mind Valley people who are listening to this podcast, if you are somebody who is interested in personal growth and have been a student of performance strategies and personal growth strategies and being a better person, the human being itself, you may have heard of this company.

Ajit (04:54):

I was in the initial, when the company was new, it was a little startup. I joined the team then and was part of the major growth that the company experienced with the coming years. I was the CEO of the company for a brief period as well, along that journey. And that's kind of what really got me excited about business. Like I was always curious about it, but the growth we were able to achieve in mind Valley in short five, six years, that that initially that I focus towards that project was insane. Like we went from an unknown brand and unknown company, a little startup somewhere in the corner of Malaysia to a company that was a force in a very, very short period of time. And that got me really excited about understanding what makes business work. We often dimensionalize our business, specially if you own an agency or you're very focused on advertising, we start to believe that that's it. That's what is required to be able to create a fantastic organization and organization that will make tremendous amount of revenue and profits and be able to create great results in the world while I learned so back, tell me how I can help today. Oh, I love it.

Zach (06:01):

Oh man. Oh, well, mine Valley first off this spend a lot on ads. So like, I mean

Ajit (06:06):

Yeah, but you don't know how much revenue would make right. Very small the person day to day, you spend on ads.

Zach (06:14):

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I, I, I mean, you guys have just done

Zach (06:18):

And an amazing thing over there in terms of systematically crafting offers, funnels and ads. That very few people, um, have been here.

Zach (06:31):

Well, didn't do. And I think you has also really mastered

Ajit (06:33):

The art of partnerships and, and, um, publishings.

Zach (06:38):

So yeah, I'm excited to dive into it and, uh, you know, it was also because

Zach (06:45):

Cause of, um, mine value you guys being based in Malaysia that, uh, are, uh, I guess not all of it, but some of our technical team is actually there in KL. Um, and I would never have thought of that if it wasn't for you guys. So that's kind of the small seedlings of, of the impact you guys have had on FunnelDash and myself. But I want to talk

Zach (07:06):

About, uh, you know, this, this podcast,

Ajit (07:11):

Um, kind of bridging the world of, uh, of finance and advertising together. And so we're going to dive into, you know, how you think about like managing the finances of the business, but I want to talk about that

Zach (07:21):

Rich yet. I want to know like what, what's the plan

Ajit (07:24):

Book for, uh, you know, for a coach or a consultant, uh, to ultimately enroll their clients. Right. And let's assume that, uh, they have a decent office

Zach (07:39):

And they have that figured out. So, um, yeah, like what, what, what do you what's working right now

Ajit (07:44):

And in the world of enrollment with what's coaches,

Zach (07:52):

[inaudible],

Ajit (07:53):

There's some fundamental truth to being able to get anybody to come on board and work with you, right? Anything you, you may have a course, you might have a program. You may have a group program. You may have mastermind, you may have a one-on-one coaching solution, whatever solution you have. There's some fundamentals that all these must be true for you to be able to create the outcomes that you want to create in context of people wanting to work with you. And one of the fundamentals that that is true and will always stay true is before I can make a big commitment, I already need to experience the possibility of outcomes with you. What does that mean? Uh, very often let's say for example, Zach, uh, if you were going out in the world and starting to say, Hey, listen, I have helped many companies build a great task platforms.

Ajit (08:39):

And I wanted to do a little bit of coaching on the side. This is just something that I'm passionate about. If you go out in the world and just tell you a story, what will happen, most of the people will go, Oh, okay. You didn't bell play us health, right? Because that's the first instance like, yeah, great. Zach's awesome. Zach did work Prozac and Zach held his companies to grow and become extraordinary. Right? If you really want to engage somebody in a dialogue where they're open to hear what you may have to say for their companies, you need to lean into that conversation with something that gives them the output, give them, gives them that outcome. Even before you talk about your own companies or even before you talk about how you create an impact for your own companies, the most of the people make this mistake.

Ajit (09:23):

They start by telling this is me. Look at me. I am so awesome. Well good for you. If you really want to engage somebody in a dialogue, what you want to start with the saying hair is something that helps you, right? We found for coaches and transformational leaders. So it will change based on the type of company you want to build in type of group coaching or mastermind or a program you want to create. But in the, in the field of transformation, which is in realizing human potential in helping you perform better, helping you have a better mindset and so forth, the first offer that you always want to make is something that would be, um, to the degree of book. So not, and again, I'm being very careful because there might be a lot of agency owners, which as soon as I say book, think about, let me get a ghost writer.

Ajit (10:08):

Let me talk at them for 20 minutes. And a 20 page guide book is my next book. That is not a book. That's that's okay. That's a good start. But don't expect that people will be able to experience you with a little document that you wrote in five minutes of your time. If you want to be in the business of transformation, think yourself as a longterm player. And when you think yourself as a long player, you stop putting crap out, right? So don't put crap out. If that's one thing that is a narrative and you feel it's all about the hook, yes, you'll get customers with the hub. But when I'm talking about being in business 20 years later, right? And not having to burn and turn all the time, if you want to be in a business for 20 years, 30 years, and that's where you build.

Ajit (10:51):

If your ambition is I want to build a hundred million dollar enterprise, a billion dollar enterprise, you can think yourself to be in business for like five years, because that's not how it's done. You want to be in an enterprise that at a scalable, large, and has massive impact in the world. You want to think term. So think long-term and think, what is it that I can put together and put forward. And it may take you six months to put together and that's fine, but something that really exploits my understanding of things, not the surface results that I get, but how I get these results. And if you're able to do that, what happens is you come up with this document, which might be about a hundred pages, 200 pages, 300 pages. This document becomes the reason why people want to engage in a dialogue with you because the moment they start reading it or consuming it in any other format, if there's a different format that you choose to have like an audio book or a video book, what you are then doing is you are allowing that person to be able to experience the transformation before they hear your amazing story of how awesome you are, right?

Ajit (11:51):

Because then when they hear your story, they can now feel that you are not just saying that story. You actually mean it because you've backed it with some real documentation of how you think, and they can see your intelligence. They can see your heart, they can see your ability to be able to have the emotional resilience, the physical resilience, irrespective of what I was the field and able to see your expertise. It's just so different than, you know, from, from the world I come from, right? Like when you're doing consultations, like in the world of SAS, it's just like, Hey man, what's the functionality. Give me a demo here, create some urgency, you know, in the world of now finance and capital. It's just like, it's so it's, this is like a great refresher, you know? Like, like transformation is just a, it's a, it's a totally different, more nuance, um, sales process that if you don't get the, the, like the very beginning of this conversation, right?

Ajit (12:54):

Like you were just laying out because you know, it's going to tank and, um, I love it. So keep, keep going. So I'm sorry to interrupt. I'm just like, I'm loving, but you are so, so right. A lot of times we are so hung up and we are so attached to the nitty-gritty of stuff and the tactile nature of things that we think Abe will lead to BB will lead to see. And we just, we just focus all our energy towards it versus thinking, what is the outcome? What's the end game? Where am I taking my client? What is the experience that they have? And there's so much power that people don't realize and so much influence to be created that people don't realize when you help somebody. And it's not just help for the sake of help when you help somebody, they can't forget you.

Ajit (13:38):

There is something in that conversation that even if they don't remember the conversation, they will remember you. They will remember the person that you were in that conversation. They'll transformation. You let Zack, and I'm sure even while you're making demos, when you relate to your client needs, you have a greater chance of getting them to come on the SAS platform. Isn't that right? So a better interactive processes when you stop worrying about why should people care about you instead care about them. You see that that's one of the foundations of great business. And people tend to forget it all the time is that they're the two types. So two things, actually three things that really really matter in a great company or creating great enterprise and all three things. You need to care for you to care for your client. If you don't care for your client, there is no liability in the long-term of your project and your product product.

Ajit (14:32):

It will tank in time. Can you need to care? You need to care about your team. This is what most entrepreneurs forget. They think they are added, right? You told me there are a couple of agencies that, that have that, that maybe listening to this podcast and these agencies that are listening to it, they might be, and I'm not trying to say this is every agencies, but I've seen agencies where people are like, uh, machines. They're like, all right, you run a gambit and you run a campaign, you run a campaign. And if you tank the campaign, go away, right? There is no coaching involved. There's no care for the team. The team's not bought into the agency. The team thinks that the agency is there to burn and turn their clients. And when that happens, the liability of the company just reduces every single time.

Ajit (15:13):

The probability of success reduces massively massively. So that's the second thing that you need to care for care for your team. If you care for your people, they will care for you. It is probably the single biggest thing that's doing this, that distinguishes companies that do okay to the companies that do absolutely amazing is that they cared about their team. And so the team showed up for the company, even when the founder could not even when the entrepreneur could not be aligned to the vision, they aligned to the challenges that the company's failing, they're aligned to where they are going. For that matter. We did a whole study actually. And we were just talking about it on a different podcast. We did a whole study where we studied entrepreneurs like Steve jobs or our, uh, Phil Knight of Nike and trying to identify what is it that they were so, so good at?

Ajit (15:59):

What made these companies raise really good people think it's the product. And yes, their products are great, but you know why the products became great. They had bloody good teams. Every single person on the team was passionate about what they were doing. They cared for the product. They cared for the entrepreneur. It may seem like, and there are a lot of stories about, Oh, Steve jobs. Wasn't a nice person. This not, not true. His team loved him, adored him. They would die for him. That's how much love was created. And that's how much passion was created in the team is why these companies became so very successful. Second thing that you need to care about is your team. And lastly, you absolutely care about the longterm. You cannot operate and create an organization that is so focused on the short-term. So based on these foundations, you will see why I said the first working ad or the good ad is, is the one that relies on transformation.

Ajit (16:52):

And in our, in our setup, in our kind of work, which is about transformation, uh, personal transformation, the company transformation a lot, it starts with books because books are a great way for somebody who is intellectually stimulated, to be able to pick up a document and read through it. And you would realize that the owners that you have most of the owners of these agencies read a book, listen to a podcast like you're listening to right now, because you're always looking for education. If this conversation makes an impact with the listener, that's where I have started the transformation process for them. In context of me, this is what you, Dylan and Zach, you guys are already doing by starting this podcast. You have led transformation for people who are your potential buyers for funnel dash it's it's it's. It's a very obvious, you just have to pick that right format that really demonstrates and allows you to create a transformation. Ooh, that was killer. It's awesome, man. I, it, this

Ajit (17:50):

Episode is brought to you by a funnel Nash's add card. They only charge card exclusively for your digital ad spend. And if you're an advertiser spending tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands dollars a month on ads, and you're in e-commerce and you're looking for more capital or credit to scale, then you're probably familiar with solutions like Shopify, capital, Brex, and clear bank problem with these solutions is the cost of capital is expensive, and they take a percentage of your revenue. One of the beauties with ad card, when you combine it with one of our in network of our 5,000 in network agency partners, you have the opportunity to qualify for free ad capital funding, where we'll load up your ad card with an additional $50,000 all the way up to a million dollars of additional capital to deploy on platforms like Facebook, Google, Pinterest, Instagram, YouTube, and more. So if that's you, if you're an e-commerce spending a ton on ads and you're looking for a way to decrease

Ajit (18:49):

The cost of capital checkout ad card, we'll get back to the show. So how does this, uh, yeah, I mean, like I was listening to, uh, we're talking about all the podcasts we listened to. I was listening to a podcast this morning with the founder of a HubSpot, totally different vertical here, but like talking about SAS. And he said, you know, most people create a second product, um, because they just want to make more money. Right. And we just emphasize, like, that's completely backwards way of looking at it. And he was saying that HubSpot only created a second product their second year or their five years in after starting it. And it was, they only they're like number one rule was, we're not gonna do it. Like until we absolutely know that our customers, um, need it. And so he was echoing this and obviously these guys have done very, very well, um, in terms of like the, you know, thinking through, um, the product first. So that's awesome. So let's talk about, let's switch gears here. Let's talk about this poor ad. Like what, what is the, what's the formula for Epic failure hearing, if you wanted to, to, uh, absolutely go and rock and add, um, as a coach, what's, what's like the biggest mistake and way that people can ensure failure.

Ajit (20:18):

I'm going to give you the less popular answer, but it's the true answer. If you do it for the money, if you'd do it for the money and nothing, there's nothing wrong with the money. First of all, everybody wants to be rich and wealthy. So do I, I'm not trying to say don't work for the money. You got to need the money. You've paid the bills in. You have to take care of your family. Absolutely you need money, but if you do it for the money, what happened to them? This is more psychological. What happens. And you're doing because as human beings, if you really, really think about how are we wired as human beings, if you really recognize it. And if you take a little one step further and step backward within yourself and your heart and your soul, you will see, we are all wired to take care of each other.

Ajit (21:02):

We are all wired for community. We are all wired for love and affection. We work so hard for love and affection. And what happens is money because of the wiring that we have around it, the moment we start doing things for the money, instead of contribution and love and expression of, of ourselves, we change that narrative to say, I'm doing it for the money. What happens is that we start to approach things which are completely counter to our DNA, which is completely untrue to who we truly honestly are. And when that happens, the way we show up is completely different. The way we operate is completely different. The way people perceive us completely different, the way people respond to us completely different. And because of all of those variants that come in, we suddenly start putting out things that have lesser and lesser meaning every single day say you are an agency owner, and you want to just get more clients because you want to make more money.

Ajit (22:00):

And so, because you are in the chase of money, you get the client and then you give it to somebody without coaching that team member, you just say, okay, make this work to whatever degree you can. This actually happened. But some of the agencies I had hired in the past or hired this agency, big promise, big commitment, go in there. Six months later, I am, I want to shoot this guy because I'm like, dude, what is up with you? Like we came to an agreement, I have a good offer. You saw it. That's why you signed this deal or a soul. So you said, now I am in the situation where I am stunted for growth, because you have shoved me to somebody in your team and you don't even talk to them. Right? So I'm like, okay, what is happening here? The person's chasing money.

Ajit (22:40):

Clearly they are just thinking about the next client big and getting the next client they can get in the next land. They can get without realizing that if you really worked with, let's say that person that we started working with when we just launched our coach, our budget for 20,000 a month, that's all it was. Now we spend over 200,000 a month on advertising. That's 10 times the size in like three years, right? So I'm investing 10 times the size that was possible for that person to get. If they just cared, all they had to do was care. All they had to do was to say, yes, I want the money. I'm not gonna discount my fee. But at the same point in time, I'm going to put in effort. So I develop you as a client over an extended period of time. How many agencies that are listening to this right now may feel that they have probably done the same mistake that they have stepped away from a client because they taught that all they were responsible.

Ajit (23:30):

All they were responsible for was for, to get a team member to work on it. Yes, that's a part of the process. But if I don't win, you don't win. So make the money along the way, but don't do it for the money because when you do it for the money, you just operate differently and you will end up losing clientele or over an extended period of time. You may have some clients, but if you want success, let's get real. Like we're dealing with people, especially agency owners, you're dealing with people. And one of the big reasons why people stick around is because they can see the care. They can see your intention. It's not hard. Like we're really smart beings. Everybody is like, you think your clients are idiots. They're not really smart.

Zach (24:13):

Well, I felt like this is an amazing segue as we start talking about some financial principles for, for people to take away. And, uh, it's, I really want to get into, um, I have so many questions to ask you on this front.

Ajit (24:31):

Okay.

Zach (24:31):

I want to add, gosh, which one to go with first. All right. I'm just going to like set aside the coaching model for a second, because I am kind of curious how you, you know, talk with, and, and teach coaches to, um, kind of look at, you know, managing their, their business and finances and how they think about that. But I want you to hold that thought. And

Ajit (24:51):

I also want to just talk about like, how you think about

Zach (24:57):

Just operationally, what those systems look like for you.

Ajit (25:00):

Um, I just feel like

Zach (25:02):

You run a tight ship and like, I just want to know, like, I, you know, there's just a lot of people listening that are like, Oh, I have 200% ROAS on my Facebook ads. Like, let's spend everything that's in the bank account, like let's

Ajit (25:16):

And, um, you know, you just

Zach (25:19):

Seem like a guy that's like way more disciplined. And this is

Ajit (25:21):

Like scale beyond that. So it's an open-ended question, but like what T teach

Zach (25:26):

Us so many things?

Ajit (25:29):

Well, I believe that it depends very much on the intent of what you're creating. So, so there are different types of entrepreneurs. You, you need to understand that. So there's a category of entrepreneurs who are very much focused towards high revenue, low profit margin. And they want to keep scaling the revenue because that's their intent. That's the intent. They don't, they don't necessarily care about how their bank account looks like. They care about what they're creating in the world. It could be, uh, the size of, sorry. It could be because of many reasons it could be because they really care about the impact. And a lot of people do it just for pure ego. And we've all met one of the, one of that guys. Right. So, and that that's okay. That's everybody's personal journey. I have no one to really comment on that, but first you need to identify what kind of entrepreneur you are.

Ajit (26:14):

If you're working with a client, you want to identify what kind of entrepreneurial they are. So you will find entrepreneurs who are very much revenue focused, big name, big size of companies don't care so much about the profit. Their rituals look different than the people whose rituals are. I want to create a big company, but I also want to take a bunch of cash home, or I have family things to take care of if I have to pay these bills, which are extraordinary because if you know, for whatever reasons, and that's why that's important to them, and neither of them is wrong. And both of them are designed and wired for success. It's just, their success looks different. And because of their, their operations look different, let's take an example. So

Speaker 5 (26:50):

One of the companies that we work with is, is

Ajit (26:52):

Very much careful. Actually I've said all this part. So this person, this person that we're working with, who is very much more interested in the top line of the company, we said, okay, your operations need to look in alignment with that. Now what happens again? And it's not right or wrong way. It is. It definitely does adapt itself to the company that we're working with. But in this particular situation, it was not so much about how much money we could put inside the advertising of the offer. But it was a lot more about who the people were on the team. You see this particular entrepreneur was racing revenue so hard that they hadn't built enough systems and processes within the team so that certain, certain areas of the company can be automated, which means that the entrepreneur is just always working, right? And we all have experienced or met an entrepreneur that works like 10, 12 hours a day.

Ajit (27:44):

This was that kind of entrepreneur. They were working 10, 12 hours a day because they're like, Oh, everybody needs me. Everybody needs my opinion. Everybody needs to talk to me and something's going to hell all the time. So it basically shows you that there are no real operations and systems in the company that, that, that is in congruence with the size of the company. And at the same point in time, the entrepreneurs not even thinking about it, because there's so much in the chase of the larger goal. So what we had to build for this particular company, and again, like I said, changes from company to company. Sometimes a day is all about advertising. But for this particular company, what we had to figure out is what's the team and how are we building that team? And what are the systems around that team? Because it was about the size that they wanted to get to.

Ajit (28:26):

And they were sorry, that was a Siri, but it was about the, about the size. It was about the size of the, of the, of the output that they wanted to create and the systems and the team to back it up. They were not able to do that. So the focus area for this particular company was to be able to say, what are some of those roles that we haven't identified? And it included an advertising role within the space as well. They had an agency running campaigns, but they didn't have an internal team to manage the agency or work with the agency in asset production and content production. And, and because, because you guys told me that there are tons of agency owners that maybe this, how many times do you hate the companies you work with? Who does not have anybody coordinating anything? And you have to talk to the founder and the founder only, and the founder says do this.

Ajit (29:15):

And you're like, yeah, I need content. And this job, you do a different person every time. And you like to give me one guy, so I can actually scale your account. That was the problem with this company that didn't have somebody who can help the agency in getting the results that they were capable of. So, so we had to work on all of those systems. So it's about systematic thinking. It's about saying, okay, what are those ducks that you need to line for the whole system to flow through and be able to create the output without compromising the entrepreneur's creativity? Because that's one more classic mistake. A lot of coaches make, they think, Oh, it's all about systems and processes. Let's get them a team member. So the entrepreneur doesn't see anything. Classic mistake, entrepreneurial, the founder, who's passionate, always wants to see everything, right.

Ajit (30:00):

And you don't want to take that power away from them because it's a unique capability. Nobody else has on the team. And may not in a while, we'll have that capability. You want your entrepreneur to be able to see just not be front of fire all the time. Right? So, but you want the visibility because without that it'll cause them anxiety and they will break more things, then they will make, right. So you, all your operations goes to the. Every single time you tried to say, well, the entrepreneur doesn't need to see it. Oh, they will see it. And they want to see it. You think that they do. And that's what happens with a lot of companies. There's like the CEO come say, and, and, uh, and the marketing magic comes in. They're like, Oh, you don't have to care about it. A jet.

Ajit (30:37):

And I dislike you. I want to care about it. This is my company. What do you mean? I don't have to care about it. I don't want to care about it. Right? So that's, that's with large enterprises trying to go bigger. If there is a company that is more focused on profit, it usually is about reducing the product count. Because most of the time, the companies that are not turning a profit is because they've overcomplicated their systems. They are just doing too much in too little time. And so all they're doing is throwing crap on the wall and hoping something sticks. And when that happens, you end up creating poor products. You end up getting less retention from your clients. You end up getting more chaos in the company, making the systems so stunted that you are using two, three people to do something that requires one person, right?

Ajit (31:21):

And hence, it's eating into your profitability. Your campaigns are designed that way. Your agencies fighting between six different campaigns for the same audience. Right? And so, so just as you have created this monster that is just overly complex, that then than what you require, Hey, is my classic suggestion to anybody that's listening until you do 10 million. Don't worry about more than one or two ways to promote things. Like if you'll do webinars, do webinars, if you do books, do books, whatever that thing is, the one or two ways become really good at it. Don't do more of that. Don't do more than three or maybe four products at max. You need three to four products, that's it. That's all you really require until you're going to 10 million. And I would say, choose one to two platforms. Most of the markets has enough space and just one or two markets that you can get to 10 million within that scope and by market. I mean, like if you choose Facebook just to Facebook, if you do YouTube, just to YouTube, most of the markets have enough juice for any, any marketplace, any set of products of two or three products to get to 10 million within that ecosystem.

Zach (32:28):

Oh my God. Just crush it. You're slang it with songs. Good advice. Thank you. We're going to have you out. We're going to do like a double header here. We're going to have you back on another episode. We're just, we're just like, let you

Ajit (32:40):

Host the podcast. You just do business advice for an hour. Whatever you want to talk about, man. I love the piece around the, the, you know, just around the complexity of the products. I mean, so, so guilty of that. Um, but yes, I mean, this has been an amazing episode. I, I, uh, I, I'm such a fan now, even more a fan. Um, tell everybody a little bit about your new podcast as you didn't like, tell us how we can support you and how everybody can get in touch. Absolutely. So we just launched the podcast. It was only the day we are recording this. As when we have launched a podcast, that's called the avid coach podcast. You can go check it out@evercoachpodcast.com. It'll give you all the links to Spotify app or whatever, wherever you listen to podcasts, it's available everywhere. Uh, we launched this podcast because, or we understand there's a lot of podcasts in the, in the marketplace, but not enough for coaches who want to create transformations there.

Ajit (33:34):

If you are somebody who wants to create a transformation in the world, want to learn how to create packages around that out to create a different storytelling and so forth around that this would be a perfect podcast for you here. I bring in my friends, guests, people that inspire me. And sometimes just me talking about how to look at certain trends, how to create packages, how to create products, how to create, uh, how to create transformations really out in the world. Uh, if you, depending on when this release is, we already have podcasts that are from some of the most amazing people in storytelling like Lisa Nichols, we have Sean Stephenson who is a more on help podcasts in the world. Uh, we have, we have a podcast with Melissa Griffin. Who's a legend when it comes to blogging, even in today's times. Uh, and then there's a podcast with me and my business partner mission. So you would, you would love to listen into these conversations. It's a great thing to listen to every Friday when we release a new episode, uh, to just find more inspiration, more motivation, find more strategies and becoming better. Oh my gosh. I love it. Thank you so much, man. And we'll definitely have you back on this podcast. You absolutely crushed it.

Ajit (34:42):

And, uh, I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks Zach. Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the rich ed or ed podcast. If you're like me and listen to podcasts on the go, go ahead and subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and rich [inaudible] dot com slash podcast. And if you absolutely love the show, go ahead and leave a review and a comment share with a friend. If you do take a copy screenshot of it, email me zach@funneldash.com. Show me you left a review. I'll give you a free copy of the rich add or add book to learn more about the book. Go to rich ed for a.com to leave a review that a rich ed or at.com/review. Thanks again.

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