Dylan (02:55):

Yeah, man. You're in Hawaii. Aren't ya? I am in Hawaii. You for

Jeromy (03:00):

Like, if we want to check off the like millennial hipster trifecta, you can throw a digital nomad into the mix as well. Um, but yeah, I was in Austin. I managed to like leave like four days before, like the snow OCHA lips hit. Um, now I'm in Hawaii, which is pretty nice. There's, there's no snow, which is cool. Yeah.

Dylan (03:23):

[inaudible] well, man, give everybody an idea of kind of, you know, your background, what you're getting into these days. Just so people have to be concepts before we get to the next,

Jeromy (03:31):

For sure. Absolutely. Yeah. So, um, you know, as, uh, as, as it was introduced, um, you know, I'm mostly a media buyer. I have been, uh, for about 10 years now, uh, started with Facebook ads back in 2011, uh, which was crazy early, the first Facebook ad, I actually ran, I posted onto my personal like profile and then hit the boost post button from there. Uh, which is pretty crazy to think like how far it's evolved, um, from then to now, um, you know, at the time I was trying to like advertise a startup that I was working on with some buddies that was basically like Kickstarter, but worse. Um, you know, unfortunately it didn't really get much traction. Uh, we were, we were able to get a lot of users though. Right. And because like, I was the business idea guy, which is like code startup code for useless, um, at the time, you know, but I had the idea, my buddies were software engineers and we were kind of like collaborating on it.

Jeromy (04:30):

I was like, well, I gotta like, you know, I got to make myself useful here. So I started trying to figure out digital marketing, digital advertising, um, you know, started with Facebook ads, got some success there, um, was running for that, you know, even after we got out of college for a little while and then was kind of like, okay, I gotta, you know, that, that project wrapped up when it was obvious, it wasn't going anywhere. Um, and so then I, uh, was like, well, well, what do I do now? You know? Um, and I was talking to some of my buddies who also had startups. I'm like, Hey, you know, can you run Facebook ads for us? Like, I know you've been doing it for yourself. Like I was like, yeah, sure. And that's kind of where this all started. And, you know, it's taken a lot of twists and turns over the last 10 years, you know, I've mostly been self-employed except for like one stint in house, um, as like a director of marketing for an Icelandic financial tech startup, which is pretty crazy, it was cool to go to Iceland.

Jeromy (05:27):

Um, but I've, I've worked for all sorts of brands, um, you know, doing all sorts of things, right. So it's not just Facebook ads. I do, I do like a pretty significant amount of like programmatic advertising buys, um, you know, outdoor, LinkedIn, Twitter, Pinterest, Snapchat, all sorts of stuff. Right. And so over the years, um, you know, I've kind of evolved from, I mean, Facebook's like, you know, still significantly, like most of what I did, um, up until pretty recently. Um, but, uh, yeah, I've been kind of evolved into this like Swiss army knife of media buying, you know what I mean? But still staying in that like media buying world, um, you know, especially digital, um, which is kind of where, where like this all, all came from, you know, so as I'm going and I'm working with bigger and bigger clients, you know, I've been lucky enough to launch a number one global viral song on Spotify.

Jeromy (06:22):

Right. Which was a really cool experience. I've worked with fortune 500 startups e-commerce stores, you know, in the last year scaled an e-commerce score from a zero to a million in revenue in six weeks, which was a lot of fun. Um, and you know, it had a lot of opportunity to work on different projects. But one thing that I kind of started to notice, especially as I was doing more of this multi-channel, you know, running TV ads even, and stuff like that is like audio is this super overlooked platform, but you dig deep and it's still like a $29 billion a year industry. Right. But it's absolutely dinosaur edge. You know, you ended up calling, uh, account executives and spending like five grand or something like that on like, you know, um, one month run with your local radio station. Right. And like, you're like, what do I get out of it?

Jeromy (07:11):

And you're like, ah, I don't know, like it played this number of times, like that sort of thing, you know, and there's just this massive opportunity there. And so what I started working on was like, you know, is there, is there a way that we can make this a better experience and, you know, found out that there was and founded a decibel ads, right. Um, with a partner. And so decimal ads is like a self-serve audio ad buying platform, um, you know, kind of trying to bring that Facebook or Google buying experience to audio. Um, and so we have like radio inventory, podcast inventory, um, and then like streaming services, like Spotify and Pandora. Um, one of the cool things though that we've been able to do and kind of sets us apart is number one, that it's all self-serve number two, that there's no minimum.

Jeromy (07:58):

Right. So instead of laying out three grand, you can just do like $10 a day is literally the smallest amount. Um, so pretty approachable for most brands. Um, but you know, we've even done stuff like created a conversion pixel we'll have a Shopify connection coming out soon that can actually like track for e-commerce. And so, you know, we really think that this, this medium that's exploding and has these like great returns, um, for a lot of different advertisers, which has mostly been contained to either like super local small businesses that don't really understand what they're, you know, doing in many cases. Um, and then like huge, huge brands doing big national buys. We think that we're, we're really making more accessible and more of an option for, um, you know, kind of a lot of like indie run businesses and smaller agencies and things like that.

Jeromy (08:47):

So, yeah, that's kind of the, what I've been doing up until now and, and you know, what decibel ads is in a nutshell. So I got a million questions. It seems like you're aware of that, but when it comes down to this being a, you know, an ad platform with ad policy, I mean, I'm kind of curious on what you can get away with. I mean, I don't know anything about audio ad. I mean, when it comes down, so I know how tricky Facebook and Google can be, so how tricky would this be? Well, so, yeah, that's actually been like an interesting thing that you bring up right there. So there's a lot of experience that I brought with like a decade of being a buyer into VIN, like now running an ad platform. And I kind of really understand the like pain points that a buyer has.

Jeromy (09:30):

Um, so to be clear, I mean, I w I wouldn't phrase it as, what can I get away with, uh, constantly like a little like stress there, but like more so, like, I think that with platforms like ours, um, where you have like real human support, which is a big thing that we've prioritized, um, you can get like a nuanced understanding of, you know, what's going on. So things that maybe Facebook would reject out of hand as against policy. Um, but obviously aren't against policy, like a lot of supplements and things like that we're able to, we're able to work with, right. Um, like CBD or marijuana. Yeah. CBD. We can absolutely do, um, marijuana, um, in some cases. So in Canada for Canadian, uh, or Canadians, we can do, um, but CBD, absolutely. I mean, there there's, there's hurdles there, you have to have like licensure and things like that. And there are minimum buys that are above that $10. Um, but yeah, definitely things that you can do with that to be sure. Um, I think that the more important thing is that you're going to get a real human that actually reviews it and listens to your ad and says, okay, this is above board. And if not give you specific feedback as to what ch what to change so that you know how to like move forward and edit that as necessary. So you're telling me you don't have an algorithm to review your ads.

Jeromy (10:58):

You are, you are talking to one of the algorithms. Yeah. But I mean, you know, I think that, like, that's the big thing, right? Is that ultimately, you know, market-wide, and it's an interesting point to bring up is like Facebook and Google have, you know, I, I don't want to say they've treated advertisers badly, but I think that smaller advertisers have a hard time getting support and it's because they have an effective duopoly, right? Like they, it's the, basically those two control most of the ad spend on the internet. And we kind of think that, you know, that's not great for the consumer. Um, well, I guess, like, not really the consumer, but like their customer, their, uh, you know, clients, if you will, um, just because they don't then have to really pay attention to them. And, and we think that, you know, as this market opens back up, especially with like the privacy things, um, going on with iOS, um, and like, that's just going to be a trend that we see continuing, um, you know, that we can have a real, be a real differentiator. Um, and as a platform by being there and actually being like a partner with our advertisers, you know, rather than looking at it as like an adversarial sort of relationship, which it feels like sometimes with some of these other platforms.

Speaker 3 (12:15):

So with that being said, when it comes to the different types of businesses, how Facebook's making it harder for you to have the smaller businesses to make a work. I mean, who's the ideal businesses sign up for this essentially? Is it somebody just starting out somebody who already has a proof of concept in other channels that wants to diversify what your take on it? Yeah.

Jeromy (12:35):

I think diversification is like a larger conversation. That's been happening quite a lot. I mean, there, there's a lot of different use cases that like our platform makes sense for, or frankly, any, a lot of other platforms make sense for too. So like, um, with, you know, your, an advertiser that's looking to diversify your traffic, which you always should, uh, be doing, right? Because you don't want all your eggs in one basket. You don't want to get hit with the Banhammer by like Facebook or Google ads, right. One day, and suddenly, you know, you have to completely rebuild your ad strategy, your marketing strategy, all your channels are down and you're losing revenue and profit, you know, um, because Facebook like algorithm, false flag or something like that. And so I think the diversification is always a good thing. I think that there's challenges for digital marketers around measuring that.

Jeromy (13:19):

Um, but for us, I mean, yeah, audio is a fantastic diversification platform. The funny thing that you see is that there's this like effect essentially where like, you know, just Facebook or just audio right on their own, like can get great returns, but when you start mixing them and people are hearing you on multiple channels that actually like increases each one's performance. So like diversification and media buy actually has like an inherent advantage. Um, and when you're able to do something like, you know, if you have like a larger traffic, uh, if you have like a larger amount of traffic, you can do stuff like, even retarget with audio ads and things like that. Right. Um, you know, so somebody sees your ad on Facebook clicks, it goes to your website, doesn't end up converting, but now you're hitting them with a, you know, a coupon or an offer code, right.

Jeromy (14:06):

On like a retargeting on audio, which is a really, I think can be really, probably powerful. Um, so I say, I would say diversification's huge, especially, um, you know, if you're already like got ads, um, if you're trying to, you know, if you find some success and you're trying to scale a lot of these, like programmatic platforms like ours, um, again, you know, trying to be trying to be like, not just super self promotional, but like talking about just generally, you know, um, whether it's us or like connected TV solution or something like that. Um, I think you'll find that there are a lot more scalable, right? You don't have to spend all of your life banging your head against the wall, like arbitrarily duplicating campaigns and ad sets and things like that. There's not a bunch of like tricky auction mechanics around it. It's a little bit more straightforward, um, regarding just like bids and budgets and things like that.

Jeromy (14:57):

Um, and then like audience availability. So, um, I think that there's, there's quite a lot of, uh, different use cases there. And then for smaller, especially like local businesses, um, that you're trying to like get awareness about. So like, you know, people like personal injury attorneys or plastic surgeons, um, you know, accountants and even like B2B audiences and things like that, restaurants, all of that stuff, just local people that you're trying to hit, people that, you know, are inside of your demographics that are within a certain range of your business. This is perfect. You know, you can drop a pin basically on a map and say, okay, give me everybody within 10 miles. Um, you know, that's between, you know, a 25 to 34 year old man that I don't know likes hockey, right. Like, or whatever. Um, so I think that there's like really powerful applications for local.

Jeromy (15:45):

And I think that with, you know, the complexity of some things like Facebook and Google ads, um, where this is just literally recorded an ad, slap it up, put in like your, uh, audience targeting, um, and let it go, you know, you can set it and forget it at like $20 a day forever, you know, and know that you're reaching the right people, um, without having to, again, like do a lot of active management, a lot of advanced different, like, you know, media buying techniques and everything else. And so what we're trying to do is kind of bring back some of the simplicity, you know, talk to a lot of business, small business owners, and a lot of them, you know, they say things like, like, especially like the older school ones, or it's like, you know, used to have to just take out like an ad in the phone book or whatever, like that sort of thing, which is hilarious to think about.

Jeromy (16:30):

Cause we're like, you know, twenty-five 30 years out of that, but like, it's true. That is how they used to do it right. Or put up like a billboard or something. And it was by an ad in the newspaper and it was just a lot easier. Um, you know, it's, Facebook's kind of swallowed, uh, local media, you know, and like a lot of these large platforms, I was swallowed kind of local media. Um, and just the internet in general. I don't want to place all the blame on just them, but, uh, you know, I think that advertising became hard when you're just inherently competing with national brands at the same time. And so I think that in some ways this can be a little bit like a return to that, you know, just kind of a, an easier approach to advertising like a local business. So there's a lot of different use cases in applications, you know, whether you're a e-commerce guy trying to scale or your local business, just trying to get the word out

Speaker 5 (17:17):

Well, let's dive into some good use cases to kind of dive into the rich ad segment, AKA what's working. So, I mean, what's working in the audio ad world. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that,

Jeromy (17:32):

Um, there's, there's different, there's definitely different, um, sorts of things that are working. Right. I guess I'll talk about like the platform level first, which is, you know, podcast inventory is blowing up. A lot of people are buying podcast ads. I mean, you've seen like huge how many, you know, how many of you have you or your listeners like her, like me on DS or Casper or purple mattress or whatever. Right. Like all these amazing Roman. Exactly, exactly. Yeah. All these big DTC brands that are like, just going hard on podcast ads, but like part of the hard thing there is that those are individually, you know, negotiated deals, right? Like for like a host to do a read. I think what you're starting to see is the ecosystem shift a little bit where, um, you're going to see more and more programmatic ads on the podcast side.

Jeromy (18:25):

Right. Um, you know, Spotify just announced like a new ad platform that they're coming out with. Um, and like a big, my, my speculation there is that they will be probably trying to monetize all these podcasts that they've been on a buying spree for. Right. And how are they going to do that? What was programmatic ads? Because you can't have Joe Rogan read off every single ad, you know what I mean? Um, and then the advantage of the programmatic ads, you know, where you can actually do third party or, you know, first party or third party, um, audience targeting, uh, around like in-market and things like that. And by, based on demographics like you do on Facebook, rather than just the audience, you're going to reduce waste, you're going to be able to actually track the performance of it through, you know, we have a conversion pixel, right.

Jeromy (19:12):

That you can put on your website and you can actually see how many, you know, what your ROI is on your ads. Um, I think so podcasts are going to be a big thing. You know, the rate of like podcast content that we're creating is just absolutely staggering and it hasn't even just, it hasn't even hit the tip of the iceberg, um, you know, in, in regards to monetizing that. So it's pretty much a wide open field as of right now. So, um, I would say that podcast advertising is one of the big things that I'm seeing working. Um, you know, the other thing is, of course, like you have your like streaming platforms like Spotify and Pandora, they're starting to open up more and more, um, except the more things, you know, they used to have big steep minimums now with like a platform like ours that connects to their API, you can purchase it a lot cheaper than you used to be able to in the past. Um, you know, from an ad creative standpoint, I want to hear the formula, for example.

Jeromy (20:09):

Yeah. So, I mean, it's, it's definitely going to depend on the type of business that you've got. You know, I think that the big thing, the formula that I see working, right. And you've got to remember, you've got 30 seconds, you know what I mean? So it has to be fast. Um, I think that the big formula that I see generally working, and one of the things we've actually built into the platform, which is we have, you know, hundreds of different like Madlibs style scripts where people can just fill in the blanks and then kind of run with it based on like, whatever industry they're in. Um, but it's, you know, big attention grabber at front, of course. Right. Like saying like a really, like, I, I don't necessarily want to say controversial statement, but like, you know, saying something that's going to actually like grab people's attention, you know?

Jeromy (20:59):

Um, can I give you an example and can I hear a good ad? Yeah, please. So do you ever watch Reno nine 11? I have watched Reno nine 11. Yeah. All I'm thinking of is an audio ad coming in new bill goofin, come stop by at your local Cavender's and get 30% off a new pair of boots. Now, is that something that would work or, um, yeah, so like, let me talk about like a specific example. So we've been having a lot of success with, you know, um, a local personal injury attorney, right? Like you have to remember that our platforms, like only a couple of months old, so we don't have like a ton of ton of, you know, a huge national like campaigns or anything like that going out, but you know, a personal injury attorney we're working with. Right. Um, you know, he opens up his ads with like, basically like throwing a bunch of like legal lingo out.

Jeromy (21:47):

Right. And then say like, does all this sound confusing? And it's like, yeah, because it's meant to confuse you. Or that's why insurance companies use this sort of lingo, you know, and I'm, you know, this attorney and I'm here to help you sort out this lingo and then ending with like a strong, like really repeating a few times, whatever the call to action you want them to take is, so in this case, it's the phone number, right. Which is like track phone number with call rail. Um, and then, you know, hitting that three times in a row. Right. And so that sort of formula with like attention grabber or controversial statement quickly, like kind of like explore like backwards explaining like why you said that controversial statement, who you are, what your benefit is, and then your call to action is really kind of the formula.

Jeromy (22:33):

Um, that's what we've seen, like work, um, you know, and, and, and the, the, the great thing about that and what, you know, that we've seen great results from that is you don't have to be like a world-class copywriter to make it happen. You don't have to spend a bunch of money on like production and sound effects and things like that in order to just tell like a good message and a quick pitch. Um, and so, you know, small businesses, a lot of times you'll hear like, Oh, if I could just talk to my customer, they would see the benefit. Right. Well, here's your chance talk to them. You know what I mean? So I think that it's just, it's, that's really kind of the basic formula of what we've seen work so far. That makes complete sense. And that's a good example. I guess I wouldn't be the one to write the scripts, but Hey, it's that

Zach (23:19):

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Jeromy (24:36):

Check it out@funneldash.com. Now, of course, we'd love to hear about what's working and what's not working. So, I mean, what's a nightmare scenario in the audio ad world. Yeah. So nightmare scenario. So the stuff that we've seen perform worse, um, if you ramble, uh, about like your benefits, right. Rather than talk about like, ramble about your features rather than your benefits, I guess I should say, right. Um, if you get into too technical of jargon, if you don't have a clear call to action at the end, and maybe you just say your like company name, once people say, what in the world was that, um, I would say, uh, people that have, uh, that don't utilize the 30 seconds effectively that, um, you know, I've learned is 30 seconds. The baseline there 30 to 30 seconds is our baseline in audio advertising. You do have different slots.

Jeromy (25:31):

We've standardized the 30 seconds because that's the most common slot, um, that we've seen. So, uh, that when I, when I referenced that I'm talking really about us, um, so I would say rambling too technical, not a clear call to action where, you know, people don't really know what to do with your ad. Right. Um, I would say another nightmare scenario is, uh, you know, if you are way overly specific, um, with like your audiences and like what inventory you want, like a lot of people will come to us and be like, uh, you know, I want to be only on these four podcasts. Right. And like, that's cool, but you know, you also only want to advertise in a town of a couple of hundred thousand people. So I mean, how many listens realistically, do you think there are of that podcast in that town?

Jeromy (26:21):

Right. And so a nightmare scenario for us is somebody that gets overly specific doesn't trust the demographic targeting, um, and ends up with, you know, like a hundred dollars CPM or something like that. Right. Because they're, they're, they're pushing too hard in that direction. Um, which is high, but like, we've, you know, you do see it sometimes where, and to compare the, is more like, like 12, $15, right. Is usually what we're seeing. So, um, yeah, I would say that those are kind of the nightmare scenarios, um, from like a targeting perspective, but yeah. Um, also just poorly recorded, like, you know, lots of background noise and things like that. You have a surprising number of people that are like, I'm not at least going to a quiet place in order to record into their phone. Um, you'd be surprised at like how powerful the microphone on your phone is, and you can actually get quite a lot done with it, but, um, yeah, don't, don't try and like do it, like while on your like bus commute or something like that, you know what I mean? Um, so yeah, that's, I mean, that's what we've seen so far, like from like kind of a nightmare scenario, um, I would heavily avoid that sort of thing. And especially the rambling, when if you don't have some sort of clear, like what I want you to do next, um, that that's always always a bad thing. And I think you see that with Facebook ads too, frankly, or media platform just rambling, unclear copy with too much technical jargon, um, and focused on features rather than benefits,

Dylan (27:52):

You brought up a point earlier is saying, Hey, if I want to be on four specific podcasts, I want the audience of that and a local city. Is that not so much how it works or does it, or is it more of a, Hey, I want to be able to hit generic marketing podcasts in the United States where the audience is 20 to 35, or can I say, Hey, I want perpetual traffic people reach out or add podcast people. How does that kind of pan out or work there?

Jeromy (28:16):

Yeah. So I mean, the thing is, is that it can work in any of those ways. Right. Um, the best way of doing it is thinking about it, like how you buy your Facebook ads. Right. Which is let's focus on the audience that makes sense. Right. And then worry less about the specific inventory. Um, you know, I think that you're going to get the best bang for your buck. Like if you just say, Hey, I know that what this resonates with is people that are, you know, if I'm a real estate agent, right. I just want people that are in market reality in my city. Right. And then just let the cards fall where it may based on, um, based on that. And so I, I think that when people try and get too specific about what shows they want to appear on and stuff like that, which is a little bit letting your ego in some, in some cases, in some cases it's people trying to like match the topic, which makes sense. But in other cases, it's like, you know, sometimes I think people just want their ad to show up on the cool shows, which is fine. There's nothing wrong with that inherently. But, um, you know, I think that's where, where people get tripped up to be sure.

Dylan (29:24):

And this has been interesting, man.

Jeromy (29:27):

Well, give everybody an idea of, you know,

Dylan (29:30):

What's in the pipeline, you know, and you know, how can we support you there?

Jeromy (29:34):

Yeah. So the biggest thing is that, like I said, we're coming up with a Shopify, um, like a Shopify app, um, to connect to the platform. Right. Uh, one of the big things that we've been hearing over and over is, you know, how do I actually prove like the return on ad spend with this? Right. Um, you know, post-purchase surveys suggest that there's a great return on ad spend our conversion pixel also picks up a decent amount of conversions. Um, it's not, one-to-one obviously, um, I don't think anything is these days, but, uh, you know, a lot of, there's a lot of questions about that. And so what that'll do is that's going to come up with like a sales lift metric, um, where it pulls things like, you know, discount codes and, um, where are impressions served versus like where you ended up getting sales, um, and, and lots of things like that, that we'll actually hope to help close that loop for e-commerce, um, that's a big one, but otherwise, I mean, if you all want to give the ad platform a shot right now, um, if you go to decibel ads.com/funneldash, uh, uh, yeah, we will, uh, do, uh, a free ad that we will make for you for your first ad.

Jeromy (30:53):

Right. So if you don't love our platform, you can take that and run with it. Uh, and we can, uh, yeah. And you can feel free to use that anywhere, but we'll, we'll make you your first, uh, we'll make you your first ad for free

Dylan (31:07):

Valued at nine 97. So that's a great

Jeromy (31:09):

Offer. Yeah, for sure.

Dylan (31:15):

How can they find you on socials man? Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn.

Jeromy (31:19):

Yeah. Yeah. So, um, in, on social, uh, at decibel ads on Twitter, um, decibel ads on Facebook, um, you know, on LinkedIn decibel ads, like it's, it's all pretty, there's not a lot of decibel ads out there. So if you, um, if you want to, if you want to check any of those out, it's a great way to keep up with us and updates and get inspiration. You know, we publish a lot of, um, with permission, our clients ads, um, for folks to get inspiration, as well as, you know, those scripts that we write. And, uh, other kinds of like wit smart ways of, you know, being able to be profitable and scale your, your ad spend with audio.

Dylan (31:57):

Y'all, y'all heard it from the source, the man behind the left man behind the box, do an audio ad. I mean, it's a killer y'all so, I mean, Jerry man, thanks for so much for jumping on

Jeromy (32:06):

Super insightful. Yeah. I appreciate the time. Thanks for letting me ramble. And, uh, you know, like I said, if you're, if you're thinking about, if you're listening, I know like a lot of people listening to this or e-commerce, or, you know, startups, if you're looking for like a way to diversify and scale spend, um, give decibel ads, consider it right. Um, give it a shot.

Dylan (32:27):

That's blades.com/funneldash look at that. I messed up the CTA. No worries. Thank you. I appreciate you having me. [inaudible]

Zach (32:42):

Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the rich ed or ed podcasts. If you're like me and listen to podcasts on the go, go ahead and subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and rich [inaudible] dot com slash podcast. And if you absolutely love the show, go ahead and leave a review and a comment share with a friend. If you do take a copy screenshot of it, email me zach@funneldash.com. Show me you left a review. I'll give you a free copy of the rich add or add book. Learn more about the book. Go to rich ed [inaudible] dot com to leave a review that a rich ed or ed.com/review. Thanks again.

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